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-   -   T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=38880)

Justin Z. Smith 11-19-2008 03:52 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Re scientific research apparently being voodoo:

Obviously we see lies outside of academia. In fact, probably more since they are generally not held as accountable, and there is often no way in heck we can check on their work. In academia, you often can check on things, get datasets, verify sources, etc.

Because science is a self correcting mechanism, if you see "lies, fabrications and buffoonery" getting peer reviewed, especially in a field you are an expert in, it is your duty to submit a devastating critique and get it peer reviewed and published or at least noticed, instead of letting it slip by or just moaning about things but doing nothing.

Challenge the topic, the methods, the research, and seek improvement in them. Don't just give up on the scientific process.


IMO,
Justin

Chris Walls 11-19-2008 03:53 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq (Post 450889)
Than do what you think works best for you, but what do you have to fear or loathe from others wanting more?

I don't fear nor loathe anyone wanting more information. It's the constant demand for the "proof" without proposing anyway to get it, or giving any suggestions or help in finding the proof. Just constantly demanding it and saying "not sciency enough!" to all the evidence we have in logs.

You want to do a study and get the data? Fill your boots. Go get your proof, but personally my proof is in the pudding, and this pudding tastes pretty damn good. (don't worry, is magic paleo pudding... ;) )

Phillip Garrison 11-19-2008 03:55 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Walls (Post 450891)
I don't fear nor loathe anyone wanting more information. It's the constant demand for the "proof" without proposing anyway to get it, or giving any suggestions or help in finding the proof. Just constantly demanding it and saying "not sciency enough!" to all the evidence we have in logs.

You want to do a study and get the data? Fill your boots. Go get your proof, but personally my proof is in the pudding, and this pudding tastes pretty damn good. (don't worry, is magic paleo pudding... ;) )

No one here said it's not "sciency enough" and demanded proof without offering a means of achieving it. Do you run an affiliate, or just train at one?

Chris Walls 11-19-2008 03:59 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
I run an affiliate.

Maybe it's just the way I take the replies to people offering up years of logs from thousands of people as enough proof as to its efficacy as being "not sciency enough! try again!" because there is always some reason why it's not data, it's just evidence or some type of hair-splitting.

Phillip Garrison 11-19-2008 04:02 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
You have to understand the scientific method. Raw data is what is known as observed phenomenom. People do crossfit, stuff happens. Know how, why and where is the science, which invariably leads to better improvement.

Chris Walls 11-19-2008 04:06 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq (Post 450906)
You have to understand the scientific method. Raw data is what is known as observed phenomenom. People do crossfit, stuff happens. Know how, why and where is the science, which invariably leads to better improvement.

I guess that's where I will agree to disagree with you. I am satisfied with keeping it "low-tech" and just continue to black box it and not be overly concerned with the mechanisms that make it work, just that it works. If there comes a day where it stops working then the next step will be to dig deeper and figure it out, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I also don't train any professional athletes so we're in no hurry to get to such levels of performance that it starts bordering on detrimental to our health.

David Stout 11-19-2008 04:36 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3...eitstophp1.jpg

Robert D Taylor Jr 11-19-2008 05:20 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
How does it go? Exercise science to an athlete is like a violin to a deer hunter? Just about the best Coach quote ever.

Tom Woodward 11-19-2008 05:52 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
On topic, just about the greatest Rip quote ever. I don't think we need a double blind milk study to show it's efficacy:


"It is because over thirty years of direct observation has demonstrated to me that when trainees drink one gallon of milk added to their regular diet and train in a progressive linear fashion, they gain significant muscular bodyweight, and those that do not drink their milk, even in the presence of progressive linear training, fail to do this. They also fail to continue progressive linear training for the same length of time, because this is facilitated by the steady weight gain. I understand that you're asking me if I have controlled for other factors such as failure to do the program correctly, and the answer is yes, of course I have, because I am not a complete idiot. Those that will not do the program are not being considered when I make these remarks, because that would be too f***ing obvious a hole in my analysis. The difference in the milk drinkers is that THEY GET BIGGER THAN THE ONES WHO WON'T DRINK THE F***ING MILK. Please tell me that you understand this now."

Derek Maffett 11-19-2008 06:03 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
You do realize that Phillip will now be complaining about how that statement also has to be dissected with extensive research projects?

Phillip, if you are affiliated with a college (did I get that wrong), then you're in a better position than most of us are in to conduct the studies you want.


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