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-   -   T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=38880)

Phillip Garrison 11-19-2008 03:43 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Walls (Post 450869)
But most of us consider the WOD (and not necessarily the posted one) as the rigorous testing. I don't care if lab tests tell me that my performance is improving. I know if I'm improving, or if my athletes are improving based on their performance. I don't care if he's switching from anaerobic to aerobic when science tells me is the right time, or if his VO2 max is measuring a certain score... if he drops 2 minutes of a 5k then we're doing good. If he adds 20lbs to a deadlift we're doing good, knocks 2 minutes of any given WOD, again, doing good. Don't particularly care why.

Would you care why if it lead to even greater performance increases in less time, or fewer injuries?

Chris Walls 11-19-2008 03:44 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq (Post 450867)
I'm saying that the only way to improve anything is through rigorous study of it to find it's strengths and weaknesses.

But why does it have to be dissected in a lab to find this? Look back at the very first WOD's posted in the archives... things have been evolving a LOT since cf.com's beginning. This is based on rigorous testing (the WOD) and seeing how it impacts benchmark results. (benchmark WODs instead of your benchmark science, V02, etc...) And tweaking and testing and tweaking and testing... 6 of 1, half dozen of the other I guess.

Chris Walls 11-19-2008 03:45 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq (Post 450873)
Would you care why if it lead to even greater performance increases in less time, or fewer injuries?

Well the results I'm seeing here are faster then I would have imagined, and injuries are non-existant so far in my gym (at least due to training in my gym... what these yahoos get into on their own time isn't my or CF's fault... heh)

Basically it ain't broke so there's nothing to fix.

Phillip Garrison 11-19-2008 03:47 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Walls (Post 450875)
But why does it have to be dissected in a lab to find this? Look back at the very first WOD's posted in the archives... things have been evolving a LOT since cf.com's beginning. This is based on rigorous testing (the WOD) and seeing how it impacts benchmark results. (benchmark WODs instead of your benchmark science, V02, etc...) And tweaking and testing and tweaking and testing... 6 of 1, half dozen of the other I guess.

In the field trials is essential part of study and training, but only half the equation. A master carpenter knows alot about building solid structures, but you would still hire an engineer to design a 110 story skyscraper.

Nick Hanson 11-19-2008 03:47 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Ok - one and only reply to this stupidly compelling thread.

Isn't this whole argument like the whole foods vs nutrient arguments? Where we all say that whole foods are better than processed nutrients. Such as a protein powder vs a piece of chicken.

VO2max to me is a piece of the whole fitness shebang (and every other scientific measurement). Isn't the only real metric that matters is work over broad times and modal domains? Why are we breaking it down to scientific crap that no one can measure without complicated tools, than just measuring more work in less time?

Phillip Garrison 11-19-2008 03:48 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Walls (Post 450876)
Well the results I'm seeing here are faster then I would have imagined, and injuries are non-existant so far in my gym (at least due to training in my gym... what these yahoos get into on their own time isn't my or CF's fault... heh)

Basically it ain't broke so there's nothing to fix.

Rapid training improvements will only come for so long. People improve rapidly doing HIT at 1st too.

Chris Walls 11-19-2008 03:49 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Paraphrasing here but Coach said in one of the journals (I think) that CF is more like a racecar driver's approach to racing, not the engineers who design the cars.

Most of us are the driver and just don't see the same things, or think the same way as the engineers.

Phillip Garrison 11-19-2008 03:50 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hanson (Post 450879)
Ok - one and only reply to this stupidly compelling thread.

Isn't this whole argument like the whole foods vs nutrient arguments? Where we all say that whole foods are better than processed nutrients. Such as a protein powder vs a piece of chicken.

VO2max to me is a piece of the whole fitness shebang (and every other scientific measurement). Isn't the only real metric that matters is work over broad times and modal domains? Why are we breaking it down to scientific crap that no one can measure without complicated tools, than just measuring more work in less time?


Well how did we determine whole foods were better than protein powders? How do you define work? How do define modal demains?

Chris Walls 11-19-2008 03:50 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hanson (Post 450879)
Ok - one and only reply to this stupidly compelling thread.

Isn't this whole argument like the whole foods vs nutrient arguments? Where we all say that whole foods are better than processed nutrients. Such as a protein powder vs a piece of chicken.

VO2max to me is a piece of the whole fitness shebang (and every other scientific measurement). Isn't the only real metric that matters is work over broad times and modal domains? Why are we breaking it down to scientific crap that no one can measure without complicated tools, than just measuring more work in less time?

I see we have another "driver" :D

Phillip Garrison 11-19-2008 03:50 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Walls (Post 450882)
Paraphrasing here but Coach said in one of the journals (I think) that CF is more like a racecar driver's approach to racing, not the engineers who design the cars.

Most of us are the driver and just don't see the same things, or think the same way as the engineers.

Than do what you think works best for you, but what do you have to fear or loathe from others wanting more?


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