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-   -   T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=38880)

Derek Maffett 11-18-2008 02:53 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Oto (Post 449728)
Because I love the truth more than I love you guys.

Please tell me you've attempted to contact Greg Glassman outside these forums. Unless you seriously expect this truth to be found here. The thirty pages of... what do you call it? Debate? Bickering? Anyways, it seems to me that you could just talk to the source of all your grievances.

Come to think of it, don't you live in Santa Cruz? Could you just simply walk over and talk to him?

Christian Mason 11-18-2008 02:54 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Filippini (Post 449733)
It doesn't. I was just using the example because there are generally only two purposes I can think of such study fulfilling: (1) to expand and improve upon the practices within CrossFit and (2) to use as convincing evidence for skeptics so as to expand and improve upon the practices of the larger community.

Though you bring up a good point. Perhaps people that are content without such studies go on the defensive so fast because those that desire them are immediately assumed to be "doubters" and they get insulted somehow.



Also, this made my day. :D


How about (3) To expand the body of knowledge about differing approaches to training athletes that is available.

It's not about convincing the people here, who are already convinced, and it's not just about recruiting or converting new people. I believe Coach has pointed out that science often lags behind what coaches practice, because the standards of evidence are higher, and the investigative process is slower.

That doesn't mean that either is wrong. Ideally they should be complementary. I.e. We see that coaches appears to be getting some impressive results with Crossfit so we investigate the methods scientifically.

Chris Walls 11-18-2008 02:56 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Maffett (Post 449755)
Come to think of it, don't you live in Santa Cruz? Could you just simply walk over and talk to him?

I think Coach lives in Arizona. Could be wrong tho.

Robert Callahan 11-18-2008 02:56 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Maffett (Post 449755)
Come to think of it, don't you live in Santa Cruz? Could you just simply walk over and talk to him?

Glassman's moved to Arizona like a year ago or something?

George Noble 11-18-2008 02:57 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
I think CrossFit can be studied retrospectively quite easily by looking at affiliate blogs, main page comments, anecdotes, etc. etc.. Here is what I suspect you would find:

CrossFit makes people with bad GPP have good GPP.
CrossFit makes people with good GPP have even better GPP.
CrossFit makes people with even better GPP have world class GPP.
People who train hard at CrossFit get better results than those who don't.
Considering the focus is on function and real life, and there are no weight classes in real life, there is quite a weird fixation on lifts as a ratio to bodyweight.
CrossFit does not produce a 750 lb deadlift in 2 years.
CrossFit is widely lambasted by idiots on the internet who give more reasonable critics (I like to think I'm one of the latter) a bad name.
CrossFitters aren't bodybuilders, nor do they look like bodybuilders.

Now why don't you stop posting multiple times in a row and go do the study?

Derek Maffett 11-18-2008 03:06 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Callahan (Post 449761)
Glassman's moved to Arizona like a year ago or something?

I see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Noble (Post 449762)
I think CrossFit can be studied retrospectively quite easily by looking at affiliate blogs, main page comments, anecdotes, etc. etc.. Here is what I suspect you would find:

CrossFit makes people with bad GPP have good GPP.
CrossFit makes people with good GPP have even better GPP.
CrossFit makes people with even better GPP have world class GPP.
People who train hard at CrossFit get better results than those who don't.
Considering the focus is on function and real life, and there are no weight classes in real life, there is quite a weird fixation on lifts as a ratio to bodyweight.
CrossFit does not produce a 750 lb deadlift in 2 years.
CrossFit is widely lambasted by idiots on the internet who give more reasonable critics (I like to think I'm one of the latter) a bad name.
CrossFitters aren't bodybuilders, nor do they look like bodybuilders.

That seems pretty fair.

Glenn Pendlay 11-18-2008 03:09 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Oto (Post 449595)
I assert that this is an outright lie on the part of Greg Glassman. This program will not, as claimed, ever take anybody to a 750lb deadlift. This is not the same as saying it won't take everybody there. It will do so for absolutely nobody.

I so, so, so much dont want to get involved in any way in this discussion. However, there is one person who I firmly believe could have achieved a 750lb deadlift inside of 2 years by following the Crossfit WOD as written. This person is Gary Heisey. Gary deadlifted around 700lbs the first time he ever tried to do the exercise, and this was without any extensive prior strength training of any kind. He very quickly went over 800lbs, then several years later in 1992, weighing 358lbs he deadlifted a world record of 925lbs, a record which stood for quite a few years. I do believe he attempted 959 or 979 once, and had his grip fail when he was almost locked out. Gary was very tall, I believe around 6'6", had long arms and legs, and relatively thin legs. He posessed an ideal physique for deadlifting, and obviously very, very abnormal natural talent and strength for the exercise.

Here is a link of a video of him giving some pointers to Grant Pitts on how to do the deadlift. In this vid, Gary is several years past his prime and not in training, but he still handles I believe 700lbs quite easily. Gary is the tall guy in the yellow T-shirt. Grant is the big guy with no shirt on. Grant was a pretty good lifter also, I think in this vid Grant is about 6' tall and around 350lbs.

Near as I can tell, the link is WFS.

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/9567

David Wood 11-18-2008 03:14 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by George Noble (Post 449762)
. . .
There is quite a weird fixation on lifts as a ratio to bodyweight.
. . .

:rofl:

As someone who weighs "only" 160, I *need* that fixation (at least in reporting my lifts) . . . I'm not going to match the lifts of my larger brethren. Call it a form of compensation for my inadequacies :)

In specifying a workout, maybe it's just a convenient training protocol to allow a widely-varying potential range of body types do the workouts?


I fully understand that most real world challenges recognize no age, weight, or gender categories . . . as someone once said: "God made all men; it took Samuel Colt to make them equal."

Brandon Oto 11-18-2008 03:15 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay (Post 449780)
I so, so, so much dont want to get involved in any way in this discussion. However, there is one person who I firmly believe could have achieved a 750lb deadlift inside of 2 years by following the Crossfit WOD as written. This person is Gary Heisey. Gary deadlifted around 700lbs the first time he ever tried to do the exercise, and this was without any extensive prior strength training of any kind. He very quickly went over 800lbs, then several years later in 1992, weighing 358lbs he deadlifted a world record of 925lbs, a record which stood for quite a few years.

Glenn,

Was this using no additional strength training outside of the WoD?

If so, you've got my money. Starting at 700 is radically different from starting at 200 but I'll let it go on good faith.

Sean Dunston 11-18-2008 03:16 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Wood (Post 449783)
:rofl:

As someone who weighs only "only" 160, I *need* that fixation (at least in reporting my lifts) . . . I'm not going to match the lifts of my larger brethren. Call it a form of compensation for my inadequacies :)

In specifying a workout, maybe it's just a convenient training protocol to allow a widely-varying potential range of body types do the workouts?


I fully understand that most real world challenges recognize no age, weight, or gender categories . . . as someone once said: "God made all men; it took Samuel Colt to make them equal."

Ditto sentiment - and ditto weight!
:highfive:


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