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-   -   Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE) (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=84920)

Shane Atkinson 10-31-2013 12:00 PM

Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
1 Attachment(s)
I know many often question the everyday joe who tries to do his own programming. However, I enjoy it. I enjoy learning the hows and whys of what we do. I would much rather research and apply what I have learned versus someone just telling me to do something. I wouldn’t say it is a control issue because I have no issue following others. I just prefer to know why I am doing something. I also like trial and error, it lets me learn who I am.

With that in mind I believe my level of knowledge for CrossFit and CrossFit Endurance programming has excelled from where it was back in June when I decide to once again venture into CrossFit. I have bought and read books; Starting Strength, Power Speed Endurance, 5/3/1, Pale Diet for Athletes and Becoming a Supple Leopard just to name a few. I believe I have vastly expanded my knowledge.

Also along this journey I have learned a lot more about myself than I ever thought possible. I can now easily identify my weaknesses. I am slowly beginning to understand how to adjust those weaknesses and how my body operates. This is all good for me. All of this brings me to a 6 Week 5/3/1 CFE Model of training. The attached example is based on my concentrating on things I suck at.

Since June I have not concentrated on Oly lifts. I have slightly cherry picked WODs. Based on incorporating the CrossFit 5 Day Theoretical Template I am less likely to cherry pick. I used to think after strength I had to METCON and this led to little skills work. Now with strength WODs being followed by a simpler M, G, or W day I can concentrate on skills. My longest METCON will be on Weds when I am fresh because there is no strength WOD involved. This would most likely be a Benchmark or AMRAP in 20mins or less type WOD.

*Note ALL CFE related intervals (SI, LI, and TT) will be taken directly from the CFE website for that week. I plan to follow main site Endurance WODS. I just want to continue to train 5/3/1. It works for me.

I know, many see a ton of volume. I have been at about this level for the last 60 days with no issues. It really isn’t much since my METCONS are usually under 15 minutes. I have learned that when I become fatigued to add a rest day or look at my diet. Just because it is typed out dose-not mean I cannot add additional rest days if needed.

I am putting this out in the digital world to receive constructive feedback. So I am open to any suggestions and constructive criticism you may have. I will answer any questions you may have as well.

Andrew Bell 10-31-2013 12:51 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
Shane, I know you been around this stuff for a while, what are your thoughts on the Alex Viada writings/program? His goal was to have an Elite total and qualify for Ironman Kona in the same 2 month period.

In one paragraph on his blog he talks about the past month:
Quote:

Easy 115 mile ride on a Sunday, good solid squatting later that week (A PR 675 for a double), an unbelievably easy (and quick) 105 mile ride that following Saturday (less than a week after the last long ride), followed by a 680 fast pull and an easy 605 x 3, then my first 500 pound bench since my SLAP lesion decided to make itself known. Felt so good I dropped it to 435 and repped it for 5. My 1 minute peak wattage on the bike is up to 1105, which is the highest it's every been), runs are going along at easy sustained 7 minute miles almost regardless of distance (haven't pushed it above 6 miles- this weekend will be the first time), and bodyfat has actually gone DOWN.
All things I think most of us dream about.....

I have never been a big fan of 5/3/1, I tend to gravitate more towards Conjugate thanks to the Olympic lifter in me.

Dakota Base 10-31-2013 02:22 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
First off, it all depends what your goals are. On a fairly similar programming strategy myself, I don't expect to be a top 10% AGF'er, but my goal for next year's IM's is to be the "fastest guy that can deadlift 450lbs". I also recognize that if I focused on lifting without the triathlon work, I'd be pulling a lot more than 450lbs up off the floor.

Beyond your own goals, the rest depends how strictly you follow the 5/3/1 programming, then how much load you put into your GMW type workouts, and of course, how that works in with your cardio type workouts. Are you multi-sporting or just running? And how far are you going for your rides/runs/swims?

Examples of issues I'd watch out for:

With your Sunday Ruck runs, then oly lifting Monday, and deads and FS on Tuesday, your quads might be flat shot out before you get to the 5/3/1 Deads/FS. If you account for the weight work to come by flat coursing your ruck instead of hill coursing, or you don't carry as much weight, maybe you'll iron out.

If you are endurance multi-sporting and put down a 125mi ride one day, what good are you doing your quads to handle heavy weight at ALL that week?

Crawling onto a Tri-bike the day after I paired Deads, squats, and Oly lifting into one workout would be he11 on my back. Guess that's a good reason to own a Road bike too, but then my quads are taking a lot of load again.

Maybe you have all of those considerations programmed in already, it just doesn't show up necessarily on the page in this 10,000ft view of your workouts. If you're single-sporting, I think you'll be groovy. Don't know how well I'd like it for multisporting.

Since you have 60+ days into this, how many hours a week is this tallying up to?

Shane Atkinson 10-31-2013 10:54 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Bell (Post 1204366)
Shane, I know you been around this stuff for a while, what are your thoughts on the Alex Viada writings/program? His goal was to have an Elite total and qualify for Ironman Kona in the same 2 month period.

In one paragraph on his blog he talks about the past month:

All things I think most of us dream about.....

I have never been a big fan of 5/3/1, I tend to gravitate more towards Conjugate thanks to the Olympic lifter in me.

I think Alex is a beast and maybe even an anomaly. I have read his blog post "So You Want to Run and be Strong?" many times over. I even attempted to try some of his program a while back, when I knew less than I do now. I quit because my recovery was not all that great. I was still feeling heavy legs when it was time to run. Maybe I failed to stay with the program long enough to adapt. That was an issue I had for a while, I'd start something and not commit. In the end his programming is not that much different than MacKenzie's except Alex doesn't include METCONs after strength. I kind of like short METCONs as well.

In regards to 5/3/1, I just think I am more comfortable with it at the moment. I like picking up the heaviest weight I can and I like a model that keeps me humble so I don't go all out to quick. My biggest concern with the Conjugate system at this moment is I am unfamiliar with it. I have always done 3x5, 5x5, 5/3/1, or something like that when I weight trained. Maybe after I apply some more research I will venture into changing from 5/3/1 to Conjugate system.

Shane Atkinson 10-31-2013 11:06 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Base (Post 1204385)
First off, it all depends what your goals are. On a fairly similar programming strategy myself, I don't expect to be a top 10% AGF'er, but my goal for next year's IM's is to be the "fastest guy that can deadlift 450lbs". I also recognize that if I focused on lifting without the triathlon work, I'd be pulling a lot more than 450lbs up off the floor.

Beyond your own goals, the rest depends how strictly you follow the 5/3/1 programming, then how much load you put into your GMW type workouts, and of course, how that works in with your cardio type workouts. Are you multi-sporting or just running? And how far are you going for your rides/runs/swims?

Dakota, I broke my own rule. If asking for help include stats and a goal. I'll answer this portion of your post now and work up the remainder later this morning.

Single Sport: Run......However, I am a Soldier so I include 1x Ruck a week alternating from SI, LI, and TT. This allows for me to get in some reps with a 55# load but not make that my concentration. Most ruck work is done with an Elevation mask set at 3-6k.

Honestly my goals are to get back to the CrossFit Total I had in 2010 when I trained with CFFB (maybe a little more). However, I would like to be able to run respectable half marathons or longer while maintaining a 1000 CFT. (Apr 2010 CFT: 955 / June 2013 CFT: 800)

As for the strictness of the 5/3/1 I follow as closely as I can. I have adjusted my METCONs from what Jim recommends in the book when combining 5/3/1 with CrossFit. Other than that the excel sheet and the 4 day split are identical to the book. All starting numbers are 10% of my real 1RM. I follow the exact percentages on all major lifts. I do what I can on the accessories (FS, Cleans, etc.) but attempt to hit the numbers as RXd.

Shane Atkinson 10-31-2013 11:29 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Base (Post 1204385)
Then how much load you put into your GMW type workouts, and of course, how that works in with your cardio type workouts. Are you multi-sporting or just running? And how far are you going for your rides/runs/swims?

In regards to the GMW work, I was not looking for these to be extremely heavy. I was looking and longer iteration bodyweight benchmarks. Stuff like Cindy, Chelsea, Helen, etc. Not specifically Hero workouts. (Although I am looking into a strategy to include them at a later date). These METCONs will also be determined by my overall recovery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Base (Post 1204385)
Examples of issues I'd watch out for:

With your Sunday Ruck runs, then oly lifting Monday, and deads and FS on Tuesday, your quads might be flat shot out before you get to the 5/3/1 Deads/FS. If you account for the weight work to come by flat coursing your ruck instead of hill coursing, or you don't carry as much weight, maybe you'll iron out.

I see where you are going here. I did not catch that exactly until now. I do not disagree at all and will keep an eye out for this. As weak as my Oly's are these first 6 weeks will most likely be technique driven. The issue you point out may become an issue as I increase the loads. Either way I will watch for this and re-look where this is going. Great point.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Base (Post 1204385)
Maybe you have all of those considerations programmed in already, it just doesn't show up necessarily on the page in this 10,000ft view of your workouts. If you're single-sporting, I think you'll be groovy. Don't know how well I'd like it for multisporting.

Since you have 60+ days into this, how many hours a week is this tallying up to?

I hope that since I am single sporting this works out for me. As I said earlier I am still learning. I am self teaching, coaching, and mentoring with the Journal, the Boards, and YouTube. I look forward to getting back to the USA in January and begin training at a box.

As for my total time a week: Strength and METCON Days with no run are about 1 hour. Run WODS are about 1 hour. So on a normal week with Wednesday and Saturday as full rest days (current plan) I am averaging 7-8 Hours of work per week....3 Run Hours 4-5 Strength / METCON hours.

Andrew Bell 11-01-2013 11:16 AM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
Thanks for your honest opinion Shane. We are on opposite sides of the world. 1K crossfit total is a somewhat easy day at the gym at this point, but I would love to be able to run 9 miles faster than 12minute miles. lol

Dakota Base 11-01-2013 12:42 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
You should be groovy then.

Just a few thoughts/recaps, really no value other than pointing out what comes to mind reading your posts:

Reading the way you talk about your goals, and considering what your goals are, your programming should be pretty straight forward: Strength program with running maintenance. Your stated goals: 1000 CFT, 'respectable half marathon times'. One is very specific, one is very vague, that mentality, combined with the way you talk about the two suggests that one is more important than the other.

Luckily, your goals are very reasonable, and your focus between both seems appropriately balanced according to the demand of each goal. Hitting 1000CFT from an 800 is a big gain, and a 1000CFT is fairly challenging in itself for a guy your size, so it needs a lot of attention. On the other hand, 'respectable half marathon times' can vary, and a guy your size and experience level should be able to handle a 2-2.5hr half marathon, fairly respectable times, with very little maintenance running.

Contrarily though, I generally subscribe to traditional 'ramp & taper' running programs for races. 3hrs per week is fine for maintenance (~15-25mi/wk), but it won't be enough time when you get into the program and peak out at 40-45mi/wk. I don't usually end up doing much strength during peak running weeks either, it's just too much time and too much volume.

As we've bounced around already, just keep an eye on your oly lifting volume and intensity to make sure you're not beating dead muscles you killed a day or two prior with your 5/3/1. Vice Versa don't fatigue your muscles with Oly work the day before a big lift day (I never clean the day before I deadlift heavy = fresh back).

For what it's worth, I've been on a different co-programmed routines for a long time. My 'sports' for the last decade: wrestling, fighting, and bull riding, demand a blend of endurance and power. I've seen the good the bad and the ugly for co-programs. There's more than one way to skin a cat, just keep 2 things in mind: 1) It's really easy to overdo the volume, and really easy to counter-train if you're not careful. 2) A master of all is a master of none. Be realistic about fitting your goals together, then keep your programming in lock-step with your goals at all times.

Programming strength and endurance together really isn't as hard as some people on here want to make it seem.

Andrew Bell 11-01-2013 01:07 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota Base (Post 1204563)
...and bull riding

You rode? Were you in Vegas last weekend? ;)

I roped for a number of years. Mostly just jackpots or lower USTRC stuff.

Dakota Base 11-01-2013 03:51 PM

Re: Another Guy Programming on His Own (5/3/1 & CFE)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Bell (Post 1204570)
You rode? Were you in Vegas last weekend? ;)

I roped for a number of years. Mostly just jackpots or lower USTRC stuff.

Rode, ride, still kicking while I can, just not winning nearly as much as I used to. Added bareback's in there over the years off and on too, but couldn't handle THAT many animals in a year (used to get on over 400 practice bulls a year). Used to team rope, haven't roped USTRC in a LONG time, since before they went and jacked up everybody's numbers. Probably wouldn't have so many creaks and groans I'd have stuck with roping instead of riding, but I figure I can always go back to roping, riding's a young man's game.

And no, lol, I'm not Top 45 in the PBR. I always favor PRCA rodeos over PBR or CBR bull ridings, so I've been ranked highest on that side, but I've made good money at PBR's. Just hard to justify buying plane tickets if you don't have sponsors paying for it, and I never went to enough of the televised events to get national sponsors.


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