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-   -   T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=38880)

David Stout 11-16-2008 06:42 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell E. White (Post 447968)
Tim:

Coach Glassman addressed that in one of his posts here. The questions that were emailed were inflammatory and not designed to foster a frank and open discussion of CF, or even of the differences in opinion about CF held outside of the community. If you've also been reading elsewhere here on the Message Board and on the Main Page Comments you would see that Coach has had an ongoing dialog with the author; my bet is that we will see a follow up article.

Gant Grimes "Hybrid" is Crossfit. Go back and read "What is Crossfit", as well as everything in "Start Here" on the Main Page. Gant has combined focused strength work with doublet and triplet WOD's that are shorter and heavier than the typical Main Page WOD, but the met-con WOD's are Crossfit. Any statement to the contrary is inaccurate. Crossfit is more than the Main Page WOD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Scheiner (Post 448067)
I think there are much stronger folks out there who are doing crossfit and have 550+ deadlifts and amazing metcons then people realize. For example Anthony Bainbridge or does anyone want to guess what these guys can do? There are monsters in this community using crossfit(individualized at an affiliate or main site) and becoming strong at levels which most power lifters respect. Just because you don't know if they're out there doesn't mean they are not.

Yes, but I think some of the guys are looking for the Main Page WOD to produce this 700 DL without modification to the programming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr (Post 448058)
Tim, how does one "hybrid" something and an element of itself? CF without strength training... isn't CF. Saying it's a strength centric version of CF principles seems to be a more accurate description of it.

I think it goes beyond this because Gant's Hybrid encorporates more than the element of the lift(s) itself. The Hybrid uses elements of other strength training methodologies (see his original post for details). Thus, Tim's description fits to me.

Tim Donahey 11-16-2008 06:56 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr (Post 448058)
Tim, how does one "hybrid" something and an element of itself? CF without strength training... isn't CF. Saying it's a strength centric version of CF principles seems to be a more accurate description of it.

It incorporates principles from Westside Barbell, Bulgarian Training Manuals, and The Texas Method. These are concepts outside the scope of Crossfit's Theoretical Programming Template.

Ivan Wolfe 11-16-2008 07:08 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell E. White (Post 447968)
Tim:

Coach Glassman addressed that in one of his posts here. The questions that were emailed were inflammatory and not designed to foster a frank and open discussion of CF, or even of the differences in opinion about CF held outside of the community.

Over at the T-nation forums, he posted the questions he e-mailed coach (as wfs as T-Nation can be):

Quote:

Q: What can CrossFit do for the Testosterone Muscle audience: the guy or gal who wants to build a lot of muscle and lose fat to show it off, but may not
care that much about endurance etc.?

Q: One of the topics that really works up the bodybuilding crowd is your
statements about hypertrophy. You write that bodybuilding with steroids
leads to the most muscle mass (no argument there!) but you also place
natural Crossfitters above natural bodybuilders. Are you saying a person
can do Crossfit and compete well in a natural bodybuilding competition?
Note: I've seen some great physiques in CrossFit, but in my observation
those who are more muscular built that muscle with their previous,
traditional weight training methods, THEN got into CrossFit. Comments?

Q: One CrossFit affiliate coach told me he's worried that quality control
will go down the more affiliates that appear. Is Crossfit growing too fast
to keep quality up? Are standards too low? After all, there's no written
test for certification, correct?

Q: What offends many people isn't the CrossFit style of training but the
sometimes cavalier or flippant attitude toward certain subjects. The use
of the clown mascots bothers a lot of people for example. Also, the
posting of the "Makimba" video with the kids seems like a heavy-handed
jab, especially the renaming of the workout. Comments?

Q: The 300 movie issue is very muddled. Twight basically says he
developed his own style and used that for the actors. CrossFit seems to be
saying that he ripped them off. It's hard to find the real truth here.
What's really going on?

Q: You had a run-in with one of my editors, TC Luoma, who made some snotty comments about Crossfit. You challenged him to compete against a female CrossFit athlete. Why not challenge him yourself? Also, the New
York Times article implied that you don't train Crossfit anymore yourself,
but I understand the reporter may have muddled that. What's the story with
these issues?
Of course, he later said: (as wfs as T-nation can be)
Quote:

Quick Note: I just had a great two-hour conversation with Greg Glassman. Wish it could have happened while I was preparing the article, as it would have added much to it, but good to talk to him personally regardless.

I was hoping to post much of our convo here, but we covered so many subjects that it would be impossible to pass along everything. Maybe I'll post a few topics later, as I did pick up a lot of interesting things. Or maybe Greg and I could do something in the future for the public: audio interview about what fitness really is, the CrossFit definition of it, etc. Just thinking out loud here.

For now, just wanted to let everyone know that we did talk, a little late for the article, but a good talk nonetheless.
Make of it what you will.

Dave Parmly 11-16-2008 07:31 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Good, measured article. Thought-provoking.

I know CF sure works for me and what MY goals are, but I'd be more than willing to tell WOD nazis to stuff it, etc. Maybe not all would be.

We should never think anything we do is so right it cannot be examined critically. Openness to criticism is a sign of strength.

Steven Anderson 11-16-2008 07:40 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Wood (Post 448046)
Thank God for the automatic **** censor, otherwise I'd have to be deleting that post :).

I know. I did go a bit overboard. :)

Shane Rapp 11-16-2008 07:43 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Parmly (Post 448121)
Good, measured article. Thought-provoking.

I know CF sure works for me and what MY goals are, but I'd be more than willing to tell WOD nazis to stuff it, etc. Maybe not all would be.

We should never think anything we do is so right it cannot be examined critically. Openness to criticism is a sign of strength.

Well said.

Robert D Taylor Jr 11-16-2008 08:12 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
I believe it does incorporate principles from other protocols. That doesn't make it not CF. Neither does "violating" the template. Main page does that probably 50-60% of the time (SWAG numbers)

Tim Donahey 11-16-2008 08:27 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr (Post 448137)
I believe it does incorporate principles from other protocols. That doesn't make it not CF. Neither does "violating" the template. Main page does that probably 50-60% of the time (SWAG numbers)

Quite right. Everything is Crossfit! (ladedadelalaladeda :whistlin:)

John C. Brown 11-16-2008 10:19 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq (Post 447939)
Yes VO2 is a predictor of successful fire fighting, I didn't say it wad the only predictor. How do you know a TDF rider couldn't handle firefighting. CF's definition isn't clear. BTW i"ve actually trained and studied firefighter training and fitness, have you?

Wow! did someone pee in your maple syrup?

I had posted a pithy reply but my judgment caught up to me about 10 minutes later... You are waste of time.

Donald Lee 11-16-2008 11:23 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
I think we should stop attacking each other personally over the internet. It's childish. It's frustrating when others don't agree with you, but that's a fact of life and a fact in the academic community. You don't see academics writing inflammatory articles about one another.

BTW, I don't see what's so crazy about the belief that VO2 is one of the indicators of fitness. Phillip's not arguing that you need to train to raise your VO2, but that VO2 is a byproduct of fitness.


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