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-   -   T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=38880)

George Noble 11-16-2008 03:54 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John C. Brown (Post 447918)
I apologize, I don't know anything about your question, I would however re-phrase your statement to say "until." I don't know about any body DLing 750, or 550 (although somebody at the games a couple of years ago backsquated like 600 plus pounds). I know that CrossFit has added several hundred pounds to many people's deads, but I haven't heard of 550.

You personally have nothing to apologise for. I'm taking issue with Glassman's statement that Brandon Oto pointed out, claiming that CF could take a deadlift from 200 to 500-750 lbs in two years (and thus making CrossFit better for making world class powerlifters than any specific powerlifting/strength routine - I don't even think Mark Rippetoe has ever claimed such feats). Until I hear of that actually happening I say it's BS.

Tim Donahey 11-16-2008 04:16 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by George Noble (Post 447949)
You personally have nothing to apologise for. I'm taking issue with Glassman's statement that Brandon Oto pointed out, claiming that CF could take a deadlift from 200 to 500-750 lbs in two years (and thus making CrossFit better for making world class powerlifters than any specific powerlifting/strength routine - I don't even think Mark Rippetoe has ever claimed such feats). Until I hear of that actually happening I say it's BS.

I agree. Crossfit won't take your deadlift to 500-750 in two years without some specific training. Crossfit has you maxing out on deadlift maybe 1-2x a month, so let's say we max out on deadlifts maybe 18x a year. That means you'd have to add an average of 8-15 lbs to your 1RM every time you deadlifted (36x) over a two year timespan. I just don't think that's feasible outside of a strength program.

I could be wrong though. Anyone here done this on Crossfit only training?

Darrell E. White 11-16-2008 04:22 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Tim:

Coach Glassman addressed that in one of his posts here. The questions that were emailed were inflammatory and not designed to foster a frank and open discussion of CF, or even of the differences in opinion about CF held outside of the community. If you've also been reading elsewhere here on the Message Board and on the Main Page Comments you would see that Coach has had an ongoing dialog with the author; my bet is that we will see a follow up article.

Gant Grimes "Hybrid" is Crossfit. Go back and read "What is Crossfit", as well as everything in "Start Here" on the Main Page. Gant has combined focused strength work with doublet and triplet WOD's that are shorter and heavier than the typical Main Page WOD, but the met-con WOD's are Crossfit. Any statement to the contrary is inaccurate. Crossfit is more than the Main Page WOD.

Jeff Martin 11-16-2008 04:32 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Tim your wrong. I have a 170 pound kid, okay 24 year old, who just pulled 500. Several who are approaching that mark. A 17 year old 150 pound kid who squats in the mid 300's. Not one of them has left the CrossFit methodology.

Details to follow with Bingo's help.

Steven Anderson 11-16-2008 04:54 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq (Post 447939)
Yes VO2 is a predictor of successful fire fighting, I didn't say it wad the only predictor. How do you know a TDF rider couldn't handle firefighting. CF's definition isn't clear. BTW i"ve actually trained and studied firefighter training and fitness, have you?

...you've "studied" firefighting...and what training? I AM a firefighter. I haven't just studied it and trained it, but I live it, every third day. Aside from the fact of pulling hose, carrying an ax and hauling other equipment; wearing gear and breathing through an SCBA mask and the whole adrenaline "spike" that comes with fighting an actual fire is a whole different ball game than wearing spandex and an aerodynamic helmet and riding a ****ing bicycle. I don't give a **** what your VO2 max is? I work alongside firefighters that go into burning buildings with a wad of ****ing dip in their mouths and come out and smoke a cigarette. I guarantee you they would blow the pants of most tour de france riders.

I have read some really great posts here, especially from the greats: Coach, Rob Wolfe, etc. Your knowledge and explanation of EVERYTHING that we've been discussing here is tremendously insightful and refreshing, and frankly is still making me wonder why some just aren't getting it.

But, I would have to say, I'd like to hear from some of the other greats. YOU KNOW, the elites that actaully DO the ****ing program and can give an educated response on what CF has done for them and their fitness level and its carryover to everyday life activites and specialized sports. Speal, Jason K, OPT, those guys. It still baffles me how Poliquin, Boyle, etc. can criticize a program they have never tried, and I mean TRIED. How can anybody bash something they have never even attempted for a REASONABLE amount of time? Kinda like Sean ****ing Penn and every other hollywood actor with an opinion on the conflict in the Middle East. Really? Maybe Poliquin should do CF for a year and TRULY find out what the hell CF is really all about. Maybe Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon should join the Army for a year and TRULY find out what the hell war is really all about. Get my drift?

The argument that CF prepares you for everyday life activities shouldn't really be an arguement at all...again if one has put any REAL time into the program. I think under Anthony Bainbridge's profile it says something in effect of "If you don't get nervous before you train, then you're not training hard enough." I find this to be true. CF builds tremendous mental toughness, more so than any other program I've ever been associated with.

All this talk with testing this and that in the lab...yea, whatever. Here's a solution, test yourselves. Pick a goal. Do the program for x amout of time. Do another program for x amout of time. Compare the results. Which one brought you to your goal faster? Which one made you faster, bigger, stronger, better VO2 max, highter VJ, look better naked, etc. etc. etc.? Only each of us truly knows what works for us. With that being said, maybe we ALL should read this: http://rosstraining.com/blog/2008/11...80%99ll-do-me/ (w/f/s)

Tim Donahey 11-16-2008 04:55 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell E. White (Post 447968)
Tim:

Coach Glassman addressed that in one of his posts here. The questions that were emailed were inflammatory and not designed to foster a frank and open discussion of CF, or even of the differences in opinion about CF held outside of the community. If you've also been reading elsewhere here on the Message Board and on the Main Page Comments you would see that Coach has had an ongoing dialog with the author; my bet is that we will see a follow up article.

Fair enough, I haven't seen the questions.

Quote:

Gant Grimes "Hybrid" is Crossfit.
Well... technically it's a hybrid of Crossfit and strength training.

Tim Donahey 11-16-2008 04:56 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Martin (Post 447974)
Tim your wrong. I have a 170 pound kid, okay 24 year old, who just pulled 500. Several who are approaching that mark. A 17 year old 150 pound kid who squats in the mid 300's. Not one of them has left the CrossFit methodology.

Details to follow with Bingo's help.

Hey, I'm happy to be wrong. :)

David Wood 11-16-2008 06:07 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Anderson (Post 447986)
...you've "studied" firefighting...and what training? I AM a firefighter. I haven't just studied it and trained it, but I live it, every third day. Aside from the fact of pulling hose, carrying an ax and hauling other equipment; wearing gear and breathing through an SCBA mask and the whole adrenaline "spike" that comes with fighting an actual fire is a whole different ball game than wearing spandex and an aerodynamic helmet and riding a ****ing bicycle. I don't give a **** what your VO2 max is? I work alongside firefighters that go into burning buildings with a wad of ****ing dip in their mouths and come out and smoke a cigarette. I guarantee you they would blow the pants of most tour de france riders.

I have read some really great posts here, especially from the greats: Coach, Rob Wolfe, etc. Your knowledge and explanation of EVERYTHING that we've been discussing here is tremendously insightful and refreshing, and frankly is still making me wonder why some just aren't getting it.

But, I would have to say, I'd like to hear from some of the other greats. YOU KNOW, the elites that actaully DO the ****ing program and can give an educated response on what CF has done for them and their fitness level and its carryover to everyday life activites and specialized sports. Speal, Jason K, OPT, those guys. It still baffles me how Poliquin, Boyle, etc. can criticize a program they have never tried, and I mean TRIED. How can anybody bash something they have never even attempted for a REASONABLE amount of time? Kinda like Sean ****ing Penn and every other hollywood actor with an opinion on the conflict in the Middle East. Really? Maybe Poliquin should do CF for a year and TRULY find out what the hell CF is really all about. Maybe Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon should join the Army for a year and TRULY find out what the hell war is really all about. Get my drift?

The argument that CF prepares you for everyday life activities shouldn't really be an arguement at all...again if one has put any REAL time into the program. I think under Anthony Bainbridge's profile it says something in effect of "If you don't get nervous before you train, then you're not training hard enough." I find this to be true. CF builds tremendous mental toughness, more so than any other program I've ever been associated with.

All this talk with testing this and that in the lab...yea, whatever. Here's a solution, test yourselves. Pick a goal. Do the program for x amout of time. Do another program for x amout of time. Compare the results. Which one brought you to your goal faster? Which one made you faster, bigger, stronger, better VO2 max, highter VJ, look better naked, etc. etc. etc.? Only each of us truly knows what works for us. With that being said, maybe we ALL should read this: http://rosstraining.com/blog/2008/11...80%99ll-do-me/ (w/f/s)


Thank God for the automatic **** censor, otherwise I'd have to be deleting that post :).

Robert D Taylor Jr 11-16-2008 06:26 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
Tim, how does one "hybrid" something and an element of itself? CF without strength training... isn't CF. Saying it's a strength centric version of CF principles seems to be a more accurate description of it.

Adam Scheiner 11-16-2008 06:35 PM

Re: T-Nation, Shugart and the Truth About CrossFit
 
I think there are much stronger folks out there who are doing crossfit and have 550+ deadlifts and amazing metcons then people realize. For example Anthony Bainbridge or does anyone want to guess what these guys can do? There are monsters in this community using crossfit(individualized at an affiliate or main site) and becoming strong at levels which most power lifters respect. Just because you don't know if they're out there doesn't mean they are not.

Moderators note: There's a link there, and it's safe. Wish to hell a guy with 560 posts to his credit could remember to do this.


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