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-   -   Stalled on press, even going backwards (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=52101)

Drew Cloutier 01-04-2010 07:48 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
By doing the same exercise constantly you will naturally hit a plateau, and faster yet, the more often you do it.

the key that I have seen in a few intelligently designed programs has been to rotate through exercises (DoggCrapp and Westside both do this that I know of, and both make STRONG MOFOS)

so say you picked 3 exercises, standing military press, standing dumbbell press, and HSPU, just as an example, they all work the same movement, but in a slightly different fashion, so you'd train rotate through them A, B, C as you did your workouts in the week.

Clear as mud?

Another point people alluded to, was working on weak points. Where are you stalling on your lift? are you doing assistance work for the other prime movers? (chest, tris, core for stabilizing, etc)

Jacob Cloud 01-04-2010 08:10 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Drew, though you bring up a solid point, I think you're going to quickly find that you're banging your head against a wall around here. DC is not a strength program. Westside does not aim to improve raw lifters, especially in the overhead press. I don't see how either applies to a bunch of guys with sub 200lb 1RM presses. This is much more the realm of Rip and SS, Starr and his methods, etc. Advanced routines and complicated schedules are not likely required.

Drew Cloutier 01-04-2010 08:28 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
I merely sited those as examples, and although westside is not geared towards the ohs, the theory behind it still can be, especially considering they gleaned much of their training from soviet olympic weightlifting training. On the comment about not meant for RAW lifters, that's just a matter of tweaking the routine, where you'd do less lockout work, since you wouldn't have the shirt helping you at the bottom, you'd do more chest/shoulder work. The principles still apply of rotating exercises, as well as working weak points. Louie himself i've never heard say RAW lifters to not use Westside.

Note on Doggcrapp training, although its not a methodology of training with the end goal of having a huge total, or what not. the GOAL is still progressive weight increases, and again the principle of rotating exercises still apply.

I can show you many DC trainees, who put up 300+ overhead, 315+ incline bench, rack deads with 600-800, squat 405+ etc... I've heard Dave Henry puts up a 505 bench, 620 squat x3, and 700lbs rack dead, and he competes in the 202lbs division. food for
thought. http://www.intensemuscle.com/dogg-pound.html

my main point was do other things then just Standing military press...everytime because that is just asking to stall things.

Graeme Howland 01-05-2010 12:23 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Sorry to hi-jack, but does anyone have ideas on good assistance exercises for the press for someone who fails about mid-face level? I assume this is he most common place to fail a press, since you should be able to lock out anything above your head assume you are benching and have decent tricep strength.

Drew Cloutier 01-05-2010 05:37 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
mid-face?? are you pressing over your face?? I don't understand...do you mean half way up?

Ben Moskowitz 01-05-2010 07:17 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
In the back of SS: BBT, Rippetoe describes pressing from a dead stop. Set the pins at a particular height (e.g. face-level) and then press away. Don't get carried away with the volume. These are similar to dead stop squats. However, he states that dead stop squats are not for the novice trainee, and I'll infer that it's also the case for presses as well. I really would recommend checking out the book to get the full description of how to properly perform the exercise.

Also you can use isometrics to blow through a sticking point. Set up two sets of pins in the power rack, one set right at the sticking point point and the other set maybe 1/2 ft. below. Press with maximal force into the top set of pins for maybe a 2 second hold and then relax. If you don't have two sets of pins then skip the bottom set.

Also check this article out by Bill Starr in the CFJ: "Don't Muddle the Middle"
WFS

Drew Cloutier 01-06-2010 01:01 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
sounds either like a pin press or rack lockout. still not understanding this mid-face expression...

Ben Moskowitz 01-06-2010 09:04 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Cloutier (Post 720014)
sounds either like a pin press or rack lockout. still not understanding this mid-face expression...

Exactly, I said as much with about 10x as many words. I think he just means his sticking point is right when the bar has reached the level of his nose.


Back to David,
Consider that on SS, you only press every 5 days at the most, and add weight every workout. While there is some carryover benefit from the bench press, maybe you shouldn't be trying to press so often. I'm thinking that pressing once week would work. You could use a ME method while rotating through reps of 5/3/1. Alternatively, you could do 3x5 straight sets (a la SS), but start around 70% of 1RM or whenever bar speed starts to slow like it actually says in the book. This would be a "deload," but by using progressive overload you'll blow through that sticking point soon enough.

Just some thoughts from a guy with a weaker press than you.

Graeme Howland 01-06-2010 11:06 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Moskowitz (Post 719916)
In the back of SS: BBT, Rippetoe describes pressing from a dead stop. Set the pins at a particular height (e.g. face-level) and then press away. Don't get carried away with the volume. These are similar to dead stop squats. However, he states that dead stop squats are not for the novice trainee, and I'll infer that it's also the case for presses as well. I really would recommend checking out the book to get the full description of how to properly perform the exercise.

Also you can use isometrics to blow through a sticking point. Set up two sets of pins in the power rack, one set right at the sticking point point and the other set maybe 1/2 ft. below. Press with maximal force into the top set of pins for maybe a 2 second hold and then relax. If you don't have two sets of pins then skip the bottom set.

Also check this article out by Bill Starr in the CFJ: "Don't Muddle the Middle"
WFS

Thanks Ben -- that is what I meant, I fail around the middle of my nose/eyes. I was reviewing a video where I failed @ 185# on a max attempt and it actually gets almost to my forehead. I own SS but I must have missed that part (it's been a while since I read the entire thing, I forgot there is assistance stuff at the end), thanks for the reminder.

Daniel Higgins 01-11-2010 08:44 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
I've often had trouble at about midway through the press ROM. One thing to do if you're going to do 3x5's or any "supplemental" press work is paused reps. Even at lighter weight (~70-80%) pausing on the chest/clavicle helps increase your explosiveness.


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