CrossFit Discussion Board

CrossFit Discussion Board (http://board.crossfit.com/index.php)
-   Exercises (http://board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=63510)

Sara Ayaz 12-10-2010 12:01 PM

Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
I am looking for a list of pros and cons of each as far as fitness and strength-building. Any help appreciated!

Eric Montgomery 12-10-2010 12:17 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Butterflies are faster but tend to require a little more coordination and trash your hands worse than regular kipping. If you're worried about strength building though, you should be doing deadhangs with as much added weight as you can handle. Plus you'll avoid any SLAP or rotator cuff issues that seem to accompany high-rep kipping or butterfly pullups for a lot of people.

Thomas Green 12-10-2010 12:29 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
If you wanna build strength, dead hangs are the way to go.

Andrew Breyer 12-10-2010 12:33 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Green (Post 877826)
If you wanna build strength, dead hangs are the way to go.

True. But the least enjoyable IMO.

Butterflies are worth the effort. Very coordination-intensive movement that is very fun to preform. Whippin' through a set of 21 pullups like a knife through hot butter is a great feeling.

Lincoln Brigham 12-10-2010 01:04 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Everytime I work on getting the butterfly down I just about tear my shoulders out of their sockets. For me the slight reduction in cycle time is not worth the risk, seeing as I can already do belly-to-bar pullups and bar muscle-ups using a glide kip. YMMV.

Diego Sommariva 12-10-2010 03:57 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
I always do deadhang, unless I'm only able to chain 2 or 3 in a WOD, in which case I'll kip as necessary. Haven't been able to tame the butterfly yet but working on it, for speed if for nothing else.
As I see it the three pros of each go like this:

Deadhang= strength builder
Kipping= functional and transferable to real life situations
Butterfly= speed and coordination

I should really elaborate on those definitions but I'm guessing you guys understand what I'm trying to say here. :)

Diego

Steven Low 12-10-2010 07:49 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Strength you wanna go with weighted pullups there...

Blair Robert Lowe 12-11-2010 01:55 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
the BFK is probably more grating on the shoulder girdle than the cyclic kip besides your hands due to the tempo, even when the tempo is moderate.

Quote:

bar muscle-ups using a glide kip.
that makes me envision landing the kip on your ribs or sternum. not fun.

Mark Martinez 12-11-2010 07:10 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe (Post 878010)
the BFK is probably more grating on the shoulder girdle than the cyclic kip besides your hands due to the tempo, even when the tempo is moderate.

that makes me envision landing the kip on your ribs or sternum. not fun.

It's possible to glide up without hitting the bar. It's even easier on those pull-up handle-bars you see on-top of cable-machines.

Zach Price 12-11-2010 08:16 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Breyer (Post 877827)
True. But the least enjoyable IMO.

So what?

Thomas Green 12-11-2010 11:12 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Price (Post 878063)
So what?

4real. Quarter squats are more "enjoyable" than full squats, but does that mean I should do em?

Sara Ayaz 12-11-2010 11:40 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
I realize deadhang/weighted deadhang are best for strength, I was more looking to find which type is appropriate for when. It makes sense that butterfly builds speed/coordination. Thanks :)

Andrew Breyer 12-11-2010 03:50 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Green (Post 878097)
4real. Quarter squats are more "enjoyable" than full squats, but does that mean I should do em?

Enjoyable is probably the wrong choice of word, but I do value butterflies over dead hang. Then again, I choose not to emphasize strength.

Stephen Flamm 12-11-2010 04:20 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
The butterfly is far easier on my shoulders - specifically the AC joint - than the traditional kip due to the lack of sudden change of direction. Obviously this is not the case with everyone, though.

As for when to use each variation, learn them all safely and then decide. They all have their place.

Andrew Breyer 12-12-2010 01:32 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Flamm (Post 878198)
The butterfly is far easier on my shoulders - specifically the AC joint - than the traditional kip due to the lack of sudden change of direction. Obviously this is not the case with everyone, though.

As for when to use each variation, learn them all safely and then decide. They all have their place.

I don't know about that... I have only hurt my shoulder doing pullups once, and it was done butterfly kipping. Your shoulders are taking a blow at the bottom of the movement. I would argue the butterfly is actually much harder on the shoulders...

Stephen Flamm 12-12-2010 01:41 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
That's exactly why I said they were easier on MY shoulders, not EVERY athlete's shoulders.

A healthy and balanced shoulder shouldn't have much difficulty with either variation, especially if they are taught responsibly and built up to correctly.

Andrew Breyer 12-13-2010 11:27 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Flamm (Post 878443)
That's exactly why I said they were easier on MY shoulders, not EVERY athlete's shoulders.

A healthy and balanced shoulder shouldn't have much difficulty with either variation, especially if they are taught responsibly and built up to correctly.

I misunderstood. Good point.

Aushion Chatman 12-15-2010 08:30 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
I find the butterfly to be easier on my shoulders too, but I notice I do a much more circular movement than others I've noticed who seem to drop straight down...

Justin McGinley 12-15-2010 10:22 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Price (Post 878063)
So what?

Seriously?

The man isn't allowed to prefer one over the other?

Darla Powell 12-15-2010 10:45 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Green (Post 877826)
If you wanna build strength, dead hangs are the way to go.

The only way to go IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lincoln Brigham (Post 877847)
Everytime I work on getting the butterfly down I just about tear my shoulders out of their sockets. For me the slight reduction in cycle time is not worth the risk, seeing as I can already do belly-to-bar pullups and bar muscle-ups using a glide kip. YMMV.

I am anti Kip. My shoulders agree with me.

Brad Gerbrandt 12-15-2010 11:40 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
When I worked as a strength and conditioning coach I had almost all my athletes learn the regular kip. It's already be mentioned, but think of the a volleyball player about to spike a ball...it's pretty much exactly the same position as the forward position of the kip. Many other skills have a similar position, throwing a ball, serving in tennis, kicking a soccer ball...
There are plenty of movements that teach you to forcefully open your hips, but only a few that teach you to forcefully close them. The regular kip does a good job of that.

However, I love the butterfly kip. In Crossfit workouts, unless there is chest to bar, I always butterfly now. It's fun and fast. I haven't noticed either one to be harder or easier on my shoulder as long as you don't drop straight down in the butterfly.

Aushion Chatman 12-15-2010 03:21 PM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Gerbrandt (Post 879749)
When I worked as a strength and conditioning coach I had almost all my athletes learn the regular kip. It's already be mentioned, but think of the a volleyball player about to spike a ball...it's pretty much exactly the same position as the forward position of the kip. Many other skills have a similar position, throwing a ball, serving in tennis, kicking a soccer ball...
There are plenty of movements that teach you to forcefully open your hips, but only a few that teach you to forcefully close them. The regular kip does a good job of that.

However, I love the butterfly kip. In Crossfit workouts, unless there is chest to bar, I always butterfly now. It's fun and fast. I haven't noticed either one to be harder or easier on my shoulder as long as you don't drop straight down in the butterfly.

^^ Right on...

Going between the arch and hollow of the beat swing (regular kip) is fundamental, you don't have to practice it with a pull-up, but it should be practiced (unless of course previous injury dictates otherwise on your shoulders).

Jack Yee 07-29-2011 05:54 AM

Re: Butterfly kipping vs regular kipping?
 
I noticed some people have an extreme arching of the back when doing BKP while others don't and seem to reamain hollow. Any thoughts?

thks


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.