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sean hernandez mccumiskey 01-16-2003 01:19 PM

i just got a rower from my wifes uncle. its in good shape, but it is not a concept 2. it is one of the rowers with hydrolic resistance. i used it for the first time on the 01 12 03 wod.

row 1000 meters
7 muscle ups
clean and jerk body weight fifteen reps

the rower has no distance function; it only has a timer, tempo ( which i cant figure out), and a counter which counts the number of times you row back and forth. i used the counter to gage how far i was rowing. i estimated it at 200 strokes per kilometer, which took me a long 9 min to complete. but seeing as to how this was my first time rowing i had nothing to base my estimate on. looking at the accomplishments i found that 1 km was only taking a third of the time with guys like cabbage. i know he is big because i went to school with him, but does size make that much of a difference?

is there any way i can get a good estimation of the distances i must row for the WODs? if it helps i am 165cm tall and weight 70kg.

where those clean and jerks split jerks or push jurks? i did split jerks. with 50% body weight.

i have been following crossfit for 1 month now and i love it.

any suggestions

Patrick Johnston 01-17-2003 09:13 AM

Weight plays a big role in C2 rowing. You aren't pulling your entire weight. Big guys have a big advantage. At your size, you should be getting 1000m below 3:45 or so. This is just a guess. Go to and look around at the times there. You will be humbled.

Regarding the clean and jerks, coach almost always has you doing the push-jerk as you can go faster.

Mark Cain 02-02-2003 04:17 PM

there is no time correlation immediately obvious between your hydrolic rower and the concept2 rower. Patrick's opinion that you should row a 3:45 on your rower is not valid. this is not to suggest that patrick's opinion on everything is not worth merit.
base your progress on what you last accomplished in your previous workouts on that particular machine.

everyone would be humbled if they were to take a gander at the world's best scores for the 2 km row on the concept 2 rower.

patrick's comment of a 3:45 for a 1000 m row is astounding as this is in the 50th percentile of all the lightweight rowers who have entered their times at the C2 site. This site preferrentially attracts some of the world's top rowers or at the very least is a great dis-incentive for average to below average ( the rest of us mere mortals ) to post our times.

I have rowed next to a 200cm -120 kg beast of a man who rowed his guts out ( collapsing at the end next to me ) to finish his 1000 meters at 3:45. This was his all-out effort.

if you get to a c2 rower, feel free to contact me for info/support.

Patrick Johnston 02-02-2003 07:47 PM

I think 3:45 on a Concept 2 is a very reasonable goal for someone his size. He may not have it now, but if he follows the WODs he'll get it. It is definitely achievable. I am 200 lbs. and can get below 3:30 without much problem and I am no world-class athlete by any means. My wife who works out only occasionally and weighs 120 lbs. has gotten below 4:05 before.

As far as the Concept 2 site goes, any goofball can post there. It attracts all types; old folks, kids, liars, etc. Don't put much stock in those silly rankings.

By the way Marc, I think the "beast" of which you speak needs some work. Maybe you should introduce him to CrossFit.:happy:.

Mark Cain 02-03-2003 04:55 AM

patrick, yeah, the beast was amusing really. he refers to himself in the third person as a 'beast'. he certainly does need some work.

as for silly rankings: apart from one or two very obvious mistakes and false posts, the numbers posted are as true as the statements made by people here at cross fit. so unless you are willing to say that the majority of people on this site are lying, then you cannot cast aspersions onto the merits of the times posted on that particular site. moreover, the times listed have " race" next to many of them, depending on the time of year and race event schedule.

the man is 154 pounds at 5 foot 4. 3:45 for the 1000m is more than respectable.

The fact that you outweigh the guy by 50 pounds ( 33% of his weight ) seems lost to you. you probably have a few inches in height on him as well. As for your partner her 4:05 is very respectable; more so than your 3:30.

This is not worth the debate really as your comment clearly shows that you don't put much faith in the times posted on the C2.

AS for your comment regarding old folks and kids: that was beyond the pale. There are many old folks there who compete year in at the world and national championships. Still competing at 80 and 90. the inference that their posted times are slow as they are feeble or weak is amazingly prejudicial! for your reference, you can pinpoint certain age categories so that the numbers do not include your assigned " old and weak" people. i am willing to bet money that absolutely no one says anything to you about your derisory comments about old people.

the boards are all the same; there always seems to be one or two people who know it all, and then there are 1000's of people lurking who don't bother to post. i have not yet decided who belongs in the former yet i am decidedly in the latter.

a 3:45 is a respectable goal. he probably will get it. then he can shoot for the 6 minute 2 km row.
no big deal either way. cheers.

Patrick Johnston 02-03-2003 06:49 AM


Don't you dare put words in my mouth. I made no negative comments about older individuals whatsoever. For you to imply as much is insulting. Please exercise your reading skills. I pointed out that the tables on the C2 website were not very useful for Sean as a guage of his times as there are too many omitted variables (age, weight, experience, etc.) as well as a selection bias. If I am making a comment about anyone at this point, it is you sir.

You are quite wrong sir, that I am not taking Sean's size into consideration. If I were not, I would say that his 1,000m time should be sub 3:25. After all, even you imply in your post that a 3:30 1,000m time is not too impressive.

I do thank you for the compliment on my wife. She is amazing. However, as to your jab at me and my rowing time; once again, use those reading skills (go ahead sound out the big words) and you will be able to infer that 3:30 is a time that I can achieve pretty easily and is not my record. Having said that, I admit that I am no great rower (though it sounds like I am better than the people you are hanging out with).

Finally, I assume that Sean is working hard at becoming a better athlete if he is doing the WODs. I believe that if this is his goal, he should set challenging goals in front of himself. 3:45 is very achievable for him and he will get it if he is at all consistent in his training. If you do not believe in setting challenging goals for yourself, that is fine. We can have differing opinions on this matter. I am sure you will never be dissapointed. Happy training.:wink:

David Werner 02-03-2003 10:16 AM

I understand and share your outrage. But the good Mr. Cain (interesting choice of a name, no?) is clearly a troll. All his posts are obviously intended to inflame and provoke. Perhaps he is best ignored and left to fester in his own psyche. Nice rowing times BTW, and your posts have helped me get some insight about my own times.

Patrick Johnston 02-03-2003 10:24 AM

Thank you David. I will take your advice to heart. Thanks for the encouragement. Good training to you.

David Wood 02-03-2003 12:58 PM

Ummmmm . . . could we take a deep breath here and count to 10? I'm not sure we need to jump quite this far yet.

Mr. Cain has not (in my mind) demonstrated true troll-hood (yet). He's come close in another thread, by (perhaps inadvertently) encouraging the whole "HIT is the one true way of training, all other methods are inferior" issue.

But even there, he hasn't actually started telling everyone they're doing it all wrong (heck, all he's done is identified Mark Metzner and Arthur Jones as driving forces behind HIT). . . so he gets a pass from me.

In this debate, it appears he took offense at Patrick's close juxtaposition (whew! what a word!) of "goofballs", "old folks", and "liars".

Patrick, I'm betting that you really wanted to emphasize that you think the times on the C2 site may not be that relevant to what Sean should aim for . . . and other interpretations were unnecessary.

I really don't know what Sean should be aiming for. If the rower he has is one of those that is truly hydraulic (pulling on the chain drives the rotation of a horizontal paddle sealed in a chamber filled with water), then I can say from experience that this really is different from the C2's air-based resistance, and times will not be comparable.

My own experience: I suck at both. And yes, size does make a big difference on both kinds (any kind, I imagine) of stationary rower . . . bigger guys have an advantage. Somewhere out there on the web is a state-of-the-art analysis on just what role size plays, although after reading it, the only thing I was sure of is "bigger is better in C2 rowing".

I honestly think Mark's original post was good advice to Sean: Work hard and compare how you're doing relative to previous workouts on that machine.

If you'll notice, although he did disagree with Patrick's original advice about specific times to shoot for, a lot of that disagreement was based on the product Sean is using NOT being a C2.

Yeah, Mark could have been even more polite than he was (I thought he was fairly polite, by Internet standards . . . he specifically acknowledged that his disagreement with Patrick was in one area only).

So far, this board has been amazingly troll-free and sort of a "no flame" zone. Wouldn't it be neat if we could keep it that way?

David Wood

Patrick Johnston 02-03-2003 01:56 PM

I don't care one lick if the guy disagrees with me. That's fine and dandy. However, I take great offense at him implying that I am insulting or degrading anyone. When I choose to do so, it will be obvious believe me.

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