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-   -   What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=84356)

Todd Neal 09-24-2013 05:17 PM

What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
I was re-reading a lot of Peter Attia's research and I cam across this "simple" explanation of what being in ketosis can do for you. It's worth keeping in mind because I know there's a lot of back and forth as to whether or not ketosis can or should help CrossFit athletes. So here's what he says:

"...the answers to these questions are probably as follows:

Does ketosis enhance aerobic capacity? Likely
Does ketosis enhance anaerobic power? No
Does ketosis enhance muscular strength? Unlikely
Does ketosis enhance muscular endurance? Likely"
I'd like to note that he says "probably." Here's the full article if anyone's interested (wfs):
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/k...-state-part-ii

Michael Dries 09-25-2013 08:58 AM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
So if you want to get strong and jacked, ketosis probably isn't a good way to go? That's my take away.

Alexander Dreyzen 09-25-2013 09:20 AM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
Go to PubMed and search for low-glycogen training. Here is one sample:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/000473.htm

"Recent studies suggest that carbohydrate restriction can improve the training-induced adaptation of muscle oxidative capacity. However, the importance of low muscle glycogen on the molecular signaling of mitochondrial biogenesis remains unclear. Here, we compare the effects of exercise with low (LG) and normal (NG) glycogen on different molecular factors involved in the regulation of mitochondrial biogenesis."
...
We conclude that exercise with low glycogen levels amplifies the expression of the major genetic marker for mitochondrial biogenesis in highly trained cyclists. The results suggest that low glycogen exercise may be beneficial for improving muscle oxidative capacity.

Todd Neal 09-25-2013 10:27 AM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Dries (Post 1196858)
So if you want to get strong and jacked, ketosis probably isn't a good way to go? That's my take away.

I think I'd modify this to say that ketosis isn't the BEST way to go (if you want to be strong and jacked). It certainly wouldn't keep me from recommending it to the average Joe CrossFitter however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Dreyzen (Post 1196865)
Recent studies suggest that carbohydrate restriction can improve the training-induced adaptation of muscle oxidative capacity.

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make here, other than it seems to be more evidence for ketosis enhancing aerobic capacity and not power or strength. Then again, are we even sure that carb restriction leads to low muscle glycogen? Your body can use protein for neoglucogenesis, and it can convert glycerol from fat into glucose, so I don't see why this would be the case.

Dare Vodusek 09-25-2013 12:53 PM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Neal (Post 1196876)
Your body can use protein for neoglucogenesis, and it can convert glycerol from fat into glucose, so I don't see why this would be the case.

As Peter Attia said, this is a long and energy demanding process. In other words, when you want to recover ASAP (replenish glycogen), carbs are the only way to do it.
But "good" carbs, something like SuperStarch might be a good idea.

Darryl Shaw 09-25-2013 01:48 PM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Neal (Post 1196876)
I'm not sure the point you're trying to make here, other than it seems to be more evidence for ketosis enhancing aerobic capacity and not power or strength. Then again, are we even sure that carb restriction leads to low muscle glycogen? Your body can use protein for neoglucogenesis, and it can convert glycerol from fat into glucose, so I don't see why this would be the case.

Only around 130-160g of glucose can be produced per day by gluconeogenesis. That's enough to maintain essential metabolic processes but it's not enough to fuel exercise or replenish glycogen stores.

Andrew N. Casey 09-26-2013 12:21 AM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
what ketosis can't do is make me forget how much i love pizza, gumbo, pie, and pasta.

Dare Vodusek 09-26-2013 12:24 AM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw (Post 1196958)
Only around 130-160g of glucose can be produced per day by gluconeogenesis. That's enough to maintain essential metabolic processes but it's not enough to fuel exercise or replenish glycogen stores.

That is correct Darryl. But how much more carbs do one really needs to fuel exerice and replenish glycogen stores? I doubt it very much that 200, 300, 400 or even 500g of carbs is needed (the amount that many people do).

Do you know how one can roughly calculate how much carbs are needed to replenish glycogen back to 100% ?

Michael Dries 09-26-2013 06:06 AM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
This is an interesting article, unfortunately it seems to only be based on endurance athletes.

http://www.nutrition411.com/ce_pdf/C...orExercise.pdf (WFS)

Bill M. Hesse 09-26-2013 06:45 AM

Re: What can low-carb (ketosis) do for you?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek (Post 1197054)
That is correct Darryl. But how much more carbs do one really needs to fuel exerice and replenish glycogen stores? I doubt it very much that 200, 300, 400 or even 500g of carbs is needed (the amount that many people do).

Do you know how one can roughly calculate how much carbs are needed to replenish glycogen back to 100% ?

Recommendation of carbohydrate intake for athletes is 5-10g/kg of bodyweight with 7 being a good estimate and 5 being on the lower side.


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