CrossFit Discussion Board

CrossFit Discussion Board (http://board.crossfit.com/index.php)
-   Exercises (http://board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Stalled on press, even going backwards (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=52101)

David Meverden 12-22-2009 09:08 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
*************UPDATE, as promised***************

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Meverden (Post 695235)
What I'm trying now is a Texas Method inspired change . . . Now I'm pressing twice a week, once 5x5 and once 1x5, heavier.

Shoulder Press progress: Very little.

Emotion: Unhappy about shoulder press.

The story: On 10-6 got 145 x4x4 on SP. Wasn't going anywhere with SP so implemented plan above. I was very regular with the press workouts, though bench press workouts and when/what metcons I did were more scattershot. I reset the weight back a fair bit so there would be no question of stunted progress due to jumping in too fast. Started 5x5 weight at 130 lbs, started 1x5 at 140. Increased by 2.5 lbs per week. Continued steadily for ~8 weeks.

Was a little greedy on the 1x5, and didn't always get all 5 reps, but 5x5's kept climbing smoothly until 12-9 when I miss a couple reps at 147.5 x5x5. Tried to do 147.5 next week, failed again. Did a CFT: 170 on SP, same as during my CFT on 9-28. I was RIDICULOUSLY close to 175 but missed it.

Result:My shoulder press went up 2.5, maybe 5, lbs in the 2 months I was trying this. GRRR!! I figured if I was patient with the ramp up it would pay off. No dice. That ****es me off. My schedule has not been the most regular, and not all my metcons were short to support strength gains, but STILL. I was going for modest gains, was regular about the press days, I was eating a fair bit, sleeping a pretty regular 8 hours.

Avg Days between SP Workouts: 2.5
KCALs consumed during this time: ~3500 per day (logged via fitday), mostly lacto-paleo. Lots of milk. Cheats not terribly uncommon.
Body weight: up around 195 now, 5 or 10 lbs up from a few months ago.
Metcons: Avg 3 per week, avg length ~12:45
Other Lifting: Typically one lift before the metcon. Some pure strength days that typically followed a Squat-Bench-Deadlift format or similar.

Reasons I may not have gotten stronger:

1) My home and work demands mean that my schedule is not regular. I'm not always lifting on the same days and the benching was not very regular. I just shouldn't have to schedule my entire life around shoulder press workouts to do this!
2) SP SUCKS! :ranting2: No, I don't mean that. Those were words said in anger. Please don't be mad, shoulder press, I love you. :p
3) Too much upper body work? I was shooting for a 5x5 bench day once a week (though didn't always hit that), plus whatever shoulder work was in the metcons.

4) ??? :confused: ??? ideas?

Where to go next: I'll entertain suggestions from the crowd. Perhaps SP clusters (1 single every 10 seconds for 5 reps, repeat 5 times). Would get the volume in at a heavier weight, and it would help with drive off the shoulders. I don't know though. This lack of success has me almost disillusioned enough to try "blasting my delts" and "going for the pump in my tris". There are a lot of BB types that have stronger shoulders than me . . .

Jared Ashley 12-29-2009 11:31 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Meverden (Post 714095)

4) ??? :confused: ??? ideas?

Where to go next: I'll entertain suggestions from the crowd. Perhaps SP clusters (1 single every 10 seconds for 5 reps, repeat 5 times). Would get the volume in at a heavier weight, and it would help with drive off the shoulders. I don't know though. This lack of success has me almost disillusioned enough to try "blasting my delts" and "going for the pump in my tris". There are a lot of BB types that have stronger shoulders than me . . .

My first thought is that you should follow something closer to true texas method.

Your program (I think): twice a week, 5x5 and 1x5.

their program: three times a week
1) 5x5 across
2) 2-3 sets of 5 at 80% of 5RM or 2-3 sets of 3-5 reps of an accessory excercise, and NOT TO BE SKIPPED!
3) ramp to max single, double, or triple

I think you're missing two things. you don't have a recovery day between the "volume" and "intensity" days, and your intensity day is still a set of 5... it should be singles and doubles.

Also, you may need to go for smaller increments then 2.5 lbs. If you've already made 1.25 lbs "plates" from lengths of chain, it shouldn't be too hard to make some 0.5 or even 0.25 lb "plates" as well.

Ben Moskowitz 12-29-2009 11:00 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
I think when David wrote 1x5 he meant 5x1 (1-1-1-1-1). As for fixing this I can't help, but you might check out either Practical Programming (never read it) or ME Black Box articles (probably very relevant).

David Meverden 12-31-2009 03:44 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Regarding questions:
- I was doing the 5x5 ~tuesday, and the 1x5 ~friday, so there was an average of about 2.5 rest days between the workouts.
- The 1x5 was one set of 5 reps. The goal, once the program gets rolling, is to set a new 5RM every intensity day, which is consistent with the Texas method. Trying to set 1, 2 or 3 RMs on intensity day are common iterations, also. Perhaps those would work better for upper body lifts.

I definitely agree with you Jared, in that this would probably work better if it was a real Texas Method. I gave this particular mutation a run because I'm not doing pure strength (~3 metcons a week). The other reason I didn't go with a full texas method is that I just feel in my gut that I just SHOULDN'T have to press 3 times a week and have all my programming revolve around pressing in order to get closer to a BW press (currently at 170# press, about 195 BW).

Maybe you are right, Jared, that I need 1.25# jumps. That is depressingly small, but if improvement can be consistent it will add up. Maybe I need to figure out how to recover better. Maybe I need assistance exercises (should I *gasp* do tricep extensions? Isolation work! My sworn enemy! ;) ). I'm not sure. I'll figure out a new plan of attack later. For the next month I'll just hone myself for a local CF competition (Garage Games in georgia). I'll mix things up a lot, work on my weaknesses (running! ugg), and get reorganized after that.

Jared Ashley 12-31-2009 05:57 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Meverden (Post 717685)
I definitely agree with you Jared, in that this would probably work better if it was a real Texas Method. I gave this particular mutation a run because I'm not doing pure strength (~3 metcons a week). The other reason I didn't go with a full texas method is that I just feel in my gut that I just SHOULDN'T have to press 3 times a week and have all my programming revolve around pressing in order to get closer to a BW press (currently at 170# press, about 195 BW).

Maybe you are right, Jared, that I need 1.25# jumps. That is depressingly small, but if improvement can be consistent it will add up. Maybe I need to figure out how to recover better. Maybe I need assistance exercises (should I *gasp* do tricep extensions? Isolation work! My sworn enemy! ;) ). I'm not sure. I'll figure out a new plan of attack later. For the next month I'll just hone myself for a local CF competition (Garage Games in georgia). I'll mix things up a lot, work on my weaknesses (running! ugg), and get reorganized after that.

I fell ya on 1.25 lbs being a depressing jump, but the press is just like that...
last time I stalled on the press, I got to 102.5 with no trouble, and then only got 3 reps at 105. Next week, 4 reps. next week, 5 reps. Then I went to 107.5 and got 3 again... was feeling pretty good about it until the following week I only got 2. Kind of gave up at that point. PR at the time was 125... lower numbers, but similar proportions with respect to your BW and mine.

it's tough to program texas method plus metcons, eh? I'm going through that debate in my head now too. I'm following CFSB(ish) programming now, but I know my lifts will start to stall in the next month or 2, and my plan was (after a reset and 2nd stall) to switch to a texas method + metcon program. I was thinking I might spread the days out over 2 weeks instead of in a single week to allow for greater recovery, and am also considering focusing my metcon around sprints and running intervals rather than doublets, triplets, and chippers, so I'm not fatiguing my upper body as much on the metcon.

Jared Ashley 12-31-2009 06:01 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Meverden (Post 717685)
Maybe I need assistance exercises (should I *gasp* do tricep extensions? Isolation work! My sworn enemy! ;) ).

Assistance excercises can take other forms too... dumbell press, push-press and jerk, and heavy negatives may be beneficial.

I know tricep extensions, skull crushers, and such also have a place eventually, but I'll admit I'm not at all knowledgeable about how to use them effectively.

Michael Ingley 12-31-2009 06:45 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
have you tried doing some lighter weight high rep sets too?

David Meverden 01-01-2010 08:16 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Ashley (Post 717724)
Assistance excercises can take other forms too... dumbell press, push-press and jerk, and heavy negatives may be beneficial.

I know that Dave Tate uses tricep extension as an assitance exercise for bench press, but I feel like that shouldn't be necessary yet. Bench Press will act as an assistance exercise to pressing, so maybe I should be more regular with that (or maybe alternate the focus weekly between Bench and Press, as many conventional Texas methods do). I also like weighted dips or weighted ring dips and some people find this helps with pressing. So that is an option as well. Think that bar dips would be more advantageous as a press assistance because you're going to be handling more weight? I can do bar dips with ~90# extra, ring dips with ~50# extra.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Ingley (Post 717734)
have you tried doing some lighter weight high rep sets too?

I haven't been doing backoff sets or similar. Seems like a logical thing to try next. What kind of weight/rep scheme would you suggest? I was playing around with the idea of doing heavy work with the barbell then doing backoff sets or high rep day with dumbells or kettlebells. Think there would be a benefit to this?

In light of the fact that CFSB focuses primarily on improving squats and deadlifts, not upper body lifts, it would be cool if an equally effective Remedial Pressing Program, or similar, could be created for CFers who wanted more upper body power.

Neal Carlson 01-03-2010 10:32 AM

Push-presses?
 
What about push presses to gain strength in presses?

I'm on SS, and was only able to do about 2 strict presses at 105. So I push-pressed the rest on my way to 3 sets of 5. For each set, the first 1-2 were strict. The next press workout I was able to do the first entire set (5) strict, but the next two sets had some push presses. Anyone advocate this and have results with it? Or do you stick to strict presses?

Jacob Cloud 01-03-2010 10:37 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
No, because push press doesn't build the weakest part of the press. And if you're only getting 2 reps on your first set, you aren't doing SS.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.