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-   -   Stalled on press, even going backwards (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=52101)

Pedro Nabais 11-12-2009 10:36 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Gann (Post 692053)
This is what I think also. I remember reading from the ************ program that too many pull ups (fran) will interfere with your pressing.

Try a week with no pull ups (other than the 3 sets on Monday) and no other OH work and see what happens. Rest more between sets, too ....

This is interesting, because it seems to me that crossfit has more pulling than pressing, I don't have lifting experience prior to starting crossfit and I do believe my pulling strenght is much stronger than my press, in coach Sommers book "Building the gymnastic body" I could do all the progressions for pull-ups and only achieve 2/3 levels of pushups or HSPU. Maybe there is too much of a bias towards pullups in crossfit?

As a side note my press is at a lowly intermediate level from mainpage only, so I would also like to improve it.

Richard Paul Ham-Williams 11-12-2009 01:18 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Hi Ben, glad things seem to be on track for you.

Out of interest; how close to failure do you push at the moment?

Ben Sparks 11-12-2009 01:35 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Every pressing workout pretty much contains a failure. 3rd rep of the last set (3x5 or 5x3 - seems to happen the same place either way) I just try & bounce it back up but then stall about halfway over head. I have to bring it back down, take a couple breaths, and then finish the set with a new attempt. I don't go so far as to put the bar on the rack, though. I hold it the whole time, just need a pause to reset.

Max from last CFT was 170, and I'm working currently at 147.5 which is around 85%. Is there a better way to go about that? If so, I'm definitely listening...

Richard Paul Ham-Williams 11-12-2009 01:46 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
How long have you been training without a break?

If you're looking for max strength in a lift then I would suggest backing off 147.5 (over 85% of max) for a while if your max is 170. Practice the lift as often as possible (3-5 days per week) with as much rest as possible between reps - avoid anything approaching failure for a while and just "grease the groove" for a week or two. Then perhaps try a max again and see what happens.

If you are rested enough and dont get a new max then it is possible you have reached your max strength with the size and technique you have.

You may just need to get bigger. Any muscle has a limit on what it can do at a particular size.

Aaron Gainer 11-12-2009 03:15 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Take a break. Regressing is a sign your body is overtrained and needs more recovery.

David Meverden 11-12-2009 05:59 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
I too have been frustrated by the press. I thought if I tried to make only small jumps (typically 2.5 lbs per week to the top set of ascending sets, was using a regime similar to CFSB: I made 1.25 lb "plates" out of lengths of chain I bought at the hardware store) I could get away with 1 day a week pressing. Wrong. In short, I couldn't make novice, workout to workout gains with my current schedule, caloric excess, and sleep schedule. If I rearranged my life more, sacrificed more for my press, or was going to accept more weight gain maybe I could make this pressing stimulus be enough, but instead I'm attempting to use more intermediate programming to accomplish the same end.

What I'm trying now is a Texas Method inspired change. In the Texas Method (an intermediate program that Rip advocates once novice gains are exhausted) you do a lift 3 times a week. Example:
Monday: 5 sets of 5
Wednesday: 3x3 or 2x5, fairly light
Friday: 1 HEAVY set of 5

Now I'm pressing twice a week, once 5x5 and once 1x5, heavier. I get more pressing stimulus without having to spend the time necessary to do two entire press workouts (1 set of 5 and warmup can be knocked out pretty fast before a WoD), and I don't feel as daunted since I'm not always trying to duplicate the last workout--but with more weight.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Ben Sparks 11-13-2009 10:36 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Well, I took an inadvertent "break" last week - had the flu. Couldn't even get out of bed for 4 days, then another 5 went by before I had the strength to do any kind of workout. Finally went back to it Saturday, just about coughed up a lung, but did squats & presses. Picked up where I'd left off with the press before and couldn't complete all 5 sets. So the rest period didn't help either...

I actually finished my whole 8-week strength cycle 2 weeks ago. I had a brachialis-insertion injury which prohibited pulling and demanded rest, so I did 8 weeks of the squats, press, and DL portions of the CFWF program, and used non-pulling mainsite WODs for the metcons, with a 10-minute cutoff, completed or not. That program worked very well on the squat, my 3x5 went from 245 to 285 and max went from 305 to 325. I did a CFT on each end, and went from 870 to 900.

So I planned next to do the 20-rep squat cycle. 8 weeks, twice a week. You take 80lbs off your 5-rep max (so for me, 285 to 205) and do 1 set of 20. You add back on 5 lbs per workout, and by the end of the 8 weeks, you're doing a 20-rep set of your previous 5-rep weight. I was going to carry on with the press work also, but I'm just not sure its really helping.

Yesterday, after the C&J's I did Herm Blancaflor's supplementary work prescription of choosing front squats, hang sq. cleans, or rack jerks and doing 3-3-3-3-3 of that, whichever was weakest in the C&J. I did the jerks, at 80% of my max C&J, and they felt really good. So I might change from strict pressing to more push press/push jerk/split jerk type work to build overhead strength for a while. I know if I add in push presses, OH squats, power snatches, etc. it will help my overhead strength and eventually raise the strict press as well.

Sound logical?

David, I'm very interested in your progress also. Keep us posted on how the TM works for your with your pressing.

David Meverden 11-13-2009 04:21 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Sparks (Post 695554)
Well, I took an inadvertent "break" last week - had the flu. Couldn't even get out of bed for 4 days, then another 5 went by before I had the strength to do any kind of workout.

David, I'm very interested in your progress also. Keep us posted on how the TM works for your with your pressing.

Remember that the flu isn't rest for your body, your body is working damn hard to fend off the disease. Some strength loss is to be expected.

I'll keep you posted on the results of my current press effort.

Graeme Howland 11-14-2009 11:36 AM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
Have you tried breathing between reps at the top of the press versus with the barbell racked? I think I suggested this earlier. I just say it again because I am right around your numbers, I just did 145 for 3 sets of 5 this week and my best single is 170. I find breathing at the top makes a huge difference.

Aaron Gainer 11-16-2009 05:21 PM

Re: Stalled on press, even going backwards
 
You need to scale back your 1rm max a bit(10% off your current 1rm) and start over. Frustration and tons of misses means your not ready for the weight yet.

It sucks taking a step back, but I myself have seen more benefits from going a bit lighter when programming than using a current 1 rm and struggling to pr weights. Reason why I like Wendler's 5/3/1 program. Teaches you to scale back, think outside the box and don't just fall into the mindtrap of weight prs, when you can make rep prs with a weight that will increase your 1rm in the long run.

Patience is a virtue. We all have good and bad days in the gym. Failing is part of the game, but multiple failures equals more time spent reprogramming and getting back on the tracks.


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