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-   -   A gallon of milk? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=23633)

John Edmondson 11-12-2007 01:56 PM

A gallon of milk?
 
I saw something on comments about Brendan Gilliam gaining 28 pounds in a month and a half drinking a gallon of milk a day on top of his regular Zone diet. I know Rippetoe advocates this approach with younger athletes in Starting Strength, but I've never actually heard of anyone trying it. Does anyone have experience with this? Thoughts?

Brian Cornwell 11-12-2007 02:01 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Yeah, someone said there was a video about it, but no one posted a link and I couldn't see anything that looked like it. I am very curious about this as well, that's remarkable progress. I also wonder if he kept training only with WODs or if he did summplemental lifting. ANyone have any insight?

Gant Grimes 11-12-2007 02:12 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I first heard of this in the mid-80s, when my friend's older (skinny-***) brother started training at Rip's gym. It worked for him, and it has worked for hundreds since.

I don't do it because I'm as large as I want to be. I also don't drink any calories (other than protein shakes). But if I wanted to gain in a hurry, this would be the route I'd take.

Kevin Roddy 11-12-2007 02:13 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I'm lactose intolerant. Attempting something like that would be near-deadly (yet hilarious).

However, if you're not, I have known of many guys who have tried similar approaches with good results. It's just a simple way of making you take in more calories.

Sean Dunston 11-12-2007 02:29 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Would this work on "1%" milk, or do you need to go with that sludge known as "WHOLE" milk? It has probably been over 30 years since I have had anything greater than 2% milk, and I have been drinking 1% for about the past 15 years.

Brandon Oto 11-12-2007 02:44 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
This is not some wacky new paradigm; "squats and milk!" is a formula about as old as muscles.

I think you'd do fine with skim milk and added fat.

Spencer Provow 11-12-2007 03:39 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
i would meet pukie in a whole new way if i tried this

Patrick Donnelly 11-12-2007 03:42 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Note that your body can only build so much muscle in any one week, no matter how many calories and rest you give it. The excess calories all go to fat.

Nick Cruz 11-12-2007 04:09 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Roddy (Post 214806)
I'm lactose intolerant. Attempting something like that would be near-deadly (yet hilarious).

However, if you're not, I have known of many guys who have tried similar approaches with good results. It's just a simple way of making you take in more calories.

Kevin,

Have you tried Raw milk yet? The Lactate present in the Raw milk allows alot of lactose intolerant folks to drink milk. I am trying to convince my lactose intolerant wife to let me experiment with her and raw milk so I can see for myself. No dice so far, however.

Stefan Geertsen 11-12-2007 08:15 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Donnelly (Post 214856)
Note that your body can only build so much muscle in any one week, no matter how many calories and rest you give it. The excess calories all go to fat.

Yup. I heard something like we can gain a maximum of 2lbs(muscle) per month if we do everything correctly.

Steve Liberati 11-12-2007 08:23 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I would seriousily question the quality of the weight gain by drinking a gallon of milk a day. Are we talking quality muscle and little fat or just whatever (28 lbs is 28 lbs so I'll take it!").

Personally, I would turn into a fat cow if I took that advice.

Derek Heinonen 11-12-2007 11:22 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I'm doing the gallon of milk thing per Rip's advice (started 6'0, 145, currently 150 now, a week later).

If I turn into a cow, I'll let you guys know. But I sincerely doubt Rip would advocate something that produced silly results like that.

-D

Oliver Gould 11-12-2007 11:45 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I'm on a 1/2 gallon of whole milk a day milk in addition to 20 zone blocks and 10 additional fat blocks. Seeing a definate increase in strength and 4 pounds of weight gain so far. It's hard to know how much of a difference the milk is making since I started the milk and the zone at around the same time. Previous to that I was on a basic healthy diet with lots of protien and 2 supplement shakes a day, now with the zone and milk I feel a lot better. Your digestive system gets used to the milk after a few days, at least mine did. My workout schedule is 5 days on 2 days off of crossfit, days 2,4 and 5 also include 1-1/2 or 2 hours of live training jiujitsu.

John Edmondson 11-12-2007 11:55 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
To those who are trying or have tried this: skim milk, 2%, whole?

Garrett Smith 11-13-2007 06:20 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
When I have patients who need to gain weight and don't have apparent dairy problems, sometimes I will have them get on raw goat's milk.

Raw milk has more of the good stuff in it, goat's milk is easier to digest than cow's.

There is a store a half mile from my office that sells it.

Anthony Bainbridge 11-13-2007 07:11 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Edmondson (Post 214797)
I saw something on comments about Brendan Gilliam gaining 28 pounds in a month

28 pounds is extreme for one month, but the "gallon of milk per day" works because it's easy to drink and fairly cheap.

Kevin Hughes 11-13-2007 08:25 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
My 16yr. old son started drinking a gallon a day about 3 or 4 weeks ago. He was apprehensive because it represented a serious breach of our paleo lifestyle. But he was training hard and he felt it was worth trying. He has noticed a few things... 3-4 lb. weight gain, more frequent acne, unfortunately, a reduced appetite, huge gains in strength. He has adde 5 lbs to his deadlift weight every workout, as suggested in Starting Strength, and his squat strenght has gone up each workout also.

The question of course, is how much of his progress can be attributed to the milk, and how much to the hard training? We'll know in a month or so because he's going to cut down on the milk.

Kris Warner 11-13-2007 09:42 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Edmondson (Post 214797)
I saw something on comments about Brendan Gilliam gaining 28 pounds in a month and a half drinking a gallon of milk a day on top of his regular Zone diet. I know Rippetoe advocates this approach with younger athletes in Starting Strength, but I've never actually heard of anyone trying it. Does anyone have experience with this? Thoughts?

He advocates this because most young atheletes aren't going to eat 4000 calories a day in solid food. So if they eat 2000 cal and drink a gallon of milk they are almost there. I don't think that drinking a gallon of milk is as important as the extra protein/fat/calories that come from it. It could be X amount of Y as long as you are still getting the calories from it. Milk is really nutrient dense and also convenient. I don't know a lot af 16 year olds who will grill 4 lb of chicken breast at a time so they have food for the next 2 days. If you can get all those calories in the form of solid food or a shake, then do it.

Kris Warner 11-13-2007 09:45 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan Geertsen (Post 214938)
Yup. I heard something like we can gain a maximum of 2lbs(muscle) per month if we do everything correctly.

Lots of naturals I know (myself included) will call BS on this. 2lbs for who? A 160lb 20 year old, 180lb 16 year old, someone who eats 5000 cal a day, someone who eats 2000 cal a day...too many variables and I didn't even get into training methods. Blanket statements like that should be taken with a grain of salt.

Kevin Roddy 11-13-2007 10:41 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Cruz (Post 214870)
Kevin,

Have you tried Raw milk yet? The Lactate present in the Raw milk allows alot of lactose intolerant folks to drink milk. I am trying to convince my lactose intolerant wife to let me experiment with her and raw milk so I can see for myself. No dice so far, however.




Raw milk is illegal here in MI, unfortunately. I'd love to try it though. Someday, when I move out of this crap state, haha.

Jason Tanner 11-13-2007 11:15 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Isn't there ALOT of sugar in milk. I just checked it and for one cup it has 12 grams of sugar. I would def. love to try this but I'm just scared my insulin levels will spike like there's no tomorrow.

Patrick Donnelly 11-13-2007 04:14 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan Geertsen (Post 214938)
Yup. I heard something like we can gain a maximum of 2lbs(muscle) per month if we do everything correctly.

Like Kris said, it does change for individuals based on age, gender, recovery, diet, training, and genetics. You must also include the weight you gain in glycogen (stored in the new muscle), water (stored with the glycogen), bone density, tendon mass, and just the fact that you will have abnormally large amounts of food sitting in your stomach while on a mass-gain program.

Gain weight steadily and moderately, and you'll be okay.

Derek Heinonen 11-13-2007 08:55 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Warner (Post 215140)
He advocates this because most young atheletes aren't going to eat 4000 calories a day in solid food. So if they eat 2000 cal and drink a gallon of milk they are almost there. I don't think that drinking a gallon of milk is as important as the extra protein/fat/calories that come from it. It could be X amount of Y as long as you are still getting the calories from it. Milk is really nutrient dense and also convenient. I don't know a lot af 16 year olds who will grill 4 lb of chicken breast at a time so they have food for the next 2 days. If you can get all those calories in the form of solid food or a shake, then do it.

Quote from Rip: "...it has all the components necessary for growing mammals, which your trainees most definitely are. There also seems to be something special about milk that the equivalent amount of calories, protein, fat, and carbs can't duplicate in terms of growth enhancement." ....

Bin Lu 11-13-2007 09:49 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
If you were looking for a solid-food way to put on pounds, then something we used to say in football for hard-gainers was, "Whenever you're thirsty, eat a peanut-butter sandwich."

Kris Warner 11-14-2007 04:32 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Heinonen (Post 215364)
Quote from Rip: "...it has all the components necessary for growing mammals, which your trainees most definitely are. There also seems to be something special about milk that the equivalent amount of calories, protein, fat, and carbs can't duplicate in terms of growth enhancement." ....

There also seems.....not science has proven. Ok so replace 2000 cal of milk with 2500 cal of regular food if it isn't 1:1, or whatever the number may be. You can get protein from much better sources than milk. Most BBers do not touch milk since it as a protein source vs other sources it su cks . Carbs, you mean simple sugars ala skittles? Milk is such a processed food now that it is very different from what the heffer feeds it's young (colosterum...milk straight from the pregnant cow. That's where all the nutrients are at.). I love milk. My best friend owns a factory farm.

Jake Winwood 11-14-2007 04:59 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I would personally be aprehensive about drinking 1 gallon a day..

I can't remember the article but I remember reading a study done on the correlation between intaking high dosages of milk and developing autism. Humans are the only species on the plant that continue to drink milk after being weaned. It is a source of nutrition for a new born baby not a athlete trying to put on weight.

I havent done extensive reasearch into the topic but i believe there are better ways to gain nutrition than drinking a gallon of milk a day. If you wanted to gain weight artificially why not try steriods?? it could be just as bad for you and you could get better results..

my 2cents would say take in a higher percentage of protein and fats in your diet from quality foods not just from a gallon of milk :)

Zac Stutts 11-14-2007 05:05 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Warner (Post 215425)
There also seems.....not science has proven. Ok so replace 2000 cal of milk with 2500 cal of regular food if it isn't 1:1, or whatever the number may be. You can get protein from much better sources than milk. Most BBers do not touch milk since it as a protein source vs other sources it su cks . Carbs, you mean simple sugars ala skittles? Milk is such a processed food now that it is very different from what the heffer feeds it's young (colosterum...milk straight from the pregnant cow. That's where all the nutrients are at.). I love milk. My best friend owns a factory farm.

you do realize where whey and casseine protein come from, right?

Kris Warner 11-14-2007 05:23 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zac Stutts (Post 215435)
you do realize where whey and casseine protein come from, right?

Yes. milk is processed to the which makes it more difficult to digest than it's "protein only" products mixed in water.

Garrett Smith 11-14-2007 05:57 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
One of my biggest issues in this debate is when people even begin to put raw milk in the same category as pasteurized homogenized factory farmed "milk".

They are not the same. Pasteurized dairy is not good for anyone, it should be treated as a junk food. If you're afraid of raw milk (I'm not), then don't use that either.

CFers are mainly supposed to avoid processed foods. Pasteurized homogenized dairy is one of those.

Kris Warner 11-14-2007 09:46 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 215448)
They are not the same. Pasteurized dairy is not good for anyone, it should be treated as a junk food. If you're afraid of raw milk (I'm not), then don't use that either.

CFers are mainly supposed to avoid processed foods. Pasteurized homogenized dairy is one of those.

This is what I was getting at. A friend of mine has my copy of SS, but I didn't think Rip was suggesting raw milk.

Garrett Smith 11-14-2007 10:43 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
I don't think Rip was referring to raw milk either (I do not have SS either). I am pretty sure that back when the books were originally being written on 20-rep squats and a gallon of milk a day that raw milk was either the standard or that it was easily obtainable (as opposed to now).

Once the primary goal becomes mass gain, other goals (including health) have to fall lower on the list. In my professional opinion, a gallon of grain-fed, homogenized, pasteurized, non-organic milk (don't forget the phthalates in the plastic milk jugs!) is not serving one's health in a long-term positive manner at all. The acne breakouts already mentioned would be a sign that the milk is not improving health.

FYI, last time we spoke via email, Kelly Moore was definitely doing significant amounts of raw cow milk and raw kefir on a daily basis. She tears up CF workouts, take it FWIW.

David Wallach 11-14-2007 10:46 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
First law of thermodynamics applied with some sanity and it really doesnt matter the increase medium, as long as the macros are right... the most important variable is recovery.

You CAN do two-a-days or more at supra maximal loads and crush the assumed limits if you can also eat 7k a day of perfect/clean cals and sleep for 12-15 hours ED...

John Edmondson 11-27-2007 10:01 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Thought I'd chime in with a testimonial. I'm twelve days into the "Gallon of milk/day Challenge." One gallon of whole milk on top of my usual 17-18 Zone blocks. BW starting: 172, this morning: 181. BF has increased by 1% according to body comp scale, for what it's worth. The mirror shows little to no blurring of abs though. I'm noticably filling out my shirts better, but the biggest difference is in strength. My Black Box poundages are increasing much more quickly than before. Haven't noticed any ill effects like acne, etc., though the first few days were pretty rough on the GI. Overall, I'm pleased with the results so far and will probably continue for another couple of weeks and then reassess. If you're a typical hardgainer like me, you might give it a try. My $0.02

Gant Grimes 11-27-2007 10:10 AM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 215555)
I don't think Rip was referring to raw milk either (I do not have SS either). I am pretty sure that back when the books were originally being written on 20-rep squats and a gallon of milk a day that raw milk was either the standard or that it was easily obtainable (as opposed to now).

Once the primary goal becomes mass gain, other goals (including health) have to fall lower on the list. In my professional opinion, a gallon of grain-fed, homogenized, pasteurized, non-organic milk (don't forget the phthalates in the plastic milk jugs!) is not serving one's health in a long-term positive manner at all. The acne breakouts already mentioned would be a sign that the milk is not improving health.

FYI, last time we spoke via email, Kelly Moore was definitely doing significant amounts of raw cow milk and raw kefir on a daily basis. She tears up CF workouts, take it FWIW.

Rip was definitely not referring to raw milk.

Dr. G, I love your advice and have learned a lot from you. But you've taken my nightshades, and you're coming for my dairy. If you touch my steak, we're going to fight, sir!

Susie Rosenberg 11-27-2007 12:54 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gant Grimes (Post 220206)
Rip was definitely not referring to raw milk.

Dr. G, I love your advice and have learned a lot from you. But you've taken my nightshades, and you're coming for my dairy. If you touch my steak, we're going to fight, sir!

Right.

In the approximately 4-5 months I've been hanging out here I have:

1. Stopped eating bread and pasta.
2. Stopped eating grains all together.
3. Stopped eating white potatoes.
4. Started eating meat. (I was a vegetarian!)
5. Stopped eating supermarket meat...now I have to go to the farm and see the animals eating the damned grass for myself!
6. Stopped eating nightshades (as of yesterday, thanks to Dr. G. and my joint pain.)
7. Stopped eating dairy. (except for my ice cream binge yesterday, courtesy of the Breyers every night thread.)

What's next?????

Susie

Brandon Oto 11-27-2007 01:15 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Legumes, and of course your non-Zone-favorable fruits and veggies, like carrots, peas, and kiwis.

Oh, and water and plastic containers.

And cell phones.

And children.

Jan Bester 11-27-2007 01:16 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
excuse the noobness, but what exactly is a nightcap? Searched, but could not find an answer..

thanks..

Jay Cohen 11-27-2007 01:48 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan Bester (Post 220300)
excuse the noobness, but what exactly is a nightcap? Searched, but could not find an answer..

thanks..

Try Nightshade.

Nightcap is what one might have after reading/posting on the CF boards for toooo long a period.

Patrick Donnelly 11-27-2007 03:38 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Re: Jan
The term "nightshades" refers to a group of plants that include peppers, eggplants, and tomatoes. They contain some chemicals that can cause joint pain in people who are sensitive to them. Sadly, I can't remember exactly what it is in them, but that's enough info to get you started on more research if you're interested.

Re: John
See this T-Nation article about bulking up too fast:
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle....dra?id=1268956
(The article itself is work/family safe, but that images in the borders of the site are often not.)

Casey Williams 11-27-2007 09:14 PM

Re: A gallon of milk?
 
Im surprised nobody has mentioned coconut milk...why not consume alot of coconut milk instead of regular milk....thats giving you alot of calories from a healthy source.


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