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Arturo Garcia 10-11-2010 08:42 AM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
I'm incredibly depressed right now.

Friday morning I went to my 6th session with this guy. After this, I had to drive 3.5 hours to a beach resort in the east part of the country, for a weekend there with my family. First time taking the kids to one of those. Probably last, until they're older.

The drive can be described with this one word: PAINFUL. At about 40-45 minutes the pain begins, it feels at the origins of the right hamstring, right where it connects with the glute, kindof the inner side of the hamstring (or medial, as I think they're divided into medial and lateral hamstrings... can't remember their true names.. actually, I can, but can't remember which is which). By 1.5 hours it's hard to keep going... I can barely reach 2 hours and needed to stop for 10-15 minutes so I could walk around and "shake it off". Driving is resumed with no pain, but again after a while, nearly the same amount of time as the first time (40 minutes?) it starts hurting, and gradually increases to unbearable by the time I reach my destination. Good thing I don't have to drive long distances in my everyday life. The return trip on sunday was exactly the same. Pain begins at maybe 50 minutes, then it becomes very painful gradually, and after 1.5 hours of straight driving it's horrible. A stop in the middle of the drive reliefs me and I can drive pain free for another 30-40 minutes.. then it sets in again and builds up from there.

Just what in the holy hell is wrong with me?

If I stretch my hamstrings doing the "good morning stretch", this right hamstring hurts, the more I push the hips back the more it hurts.

The doctor was surprised today, he wasn't expecting that. I'm going to give this guy just this week... if no improvement or no hopes of improvement is seen I'm gonna have to stop going because he's so expensive. Right now I'm regretting not going to the USA. This is what happens when you don't have a wide variety of specialists around and have to just go to whoever you can find.

Today was more of the same: ultrasound and heat. But he did something different... he had me do the prone leg raises with the dumbell in the back of my ankle for what felt like a gazillion reps, I guess he just wanted to tire out the muscle. He did almost the same with the supine leg raises with the DB on the front of my shin, close to the ankle. By touching my hamstrings he says he feels my right one is really "contracted" or whatever. I have not worked out in about 10 days by now. In the beach I did nothing that could even begin to stress my leg muscles, unless you call saturday's 20 minute beach walk a "workout" (which did produce some soreness in unusual places in the lower leg)...

Everyday I regret more not taking Mike Mallory's advice of flying to Miami and seeing someone there. Of course, it's not like every physical therapist in there is a Magician, right? Maybe I could've ended up seeing one that didn't help either, who knows. Like I said I'm gonna continue to go for a couple more days, maybe this week... if nothing improves by friday I'm gonna have to stop, it's costing too much and I aint seeing any benefit yet.

Steven Low 10-11-2010 09:08 AM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
Well, the problem is that you've had it for years... so it's probably going to take months to get it back aligned.

But yeah if money is an issue then... that's problematic.

Don't really know what to tell you.

Ask him for a home exercise program because you dont have anymore money to spare

Arturo Garcia 10-11-2010 09:57 AM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
It's about US$67 per day. That's US$335 per WEEK if I go mon-fri ... but I guess in the US it'd be even more expensive.

Mike Mallory 10-11-2010 11:24 AM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
I would cut it off now and save your money........paying out of pocket for ultrasound and heat is a waste of time.

Arturo Garcia 10-13-2010 01:17 PM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
Yesterday I dusted off my old Egoscue DVD for begginers and I did the session. I bought this in early 2008 and did it daily for about 2 weeks before quitting, was too anxious to do CrossFit back then. I remember seeing improvements in those two weeks, quitting was probably a very, VERY dumb idea.

The whole selection of exercises are not meant to be a workout for mass or anything, just posture and all that good stuff. I'm gonna try it out for a few weeks, this time trying not to quit. I also noticed there is an Advanced version, a second DVD that I never even bothered to watch! Duh. So maybe after a few weeks on this begginer version (of which some drills kicked my butt yesterday), I can do a few weeks of that other one, and see if anything improves.

One thing that I had noticed in the past, and noticed today, has always bothered me: One of the exercise is side leg raises, laying on one's side, with the forearm on the floor... you know, for gluteus medius. The thing is, today I am sore in my right "lower back". But it's not the lower back. About a year ago when I was doing tons of glute drills, I noticed that if I did these leg raises to failure I'd get a pump in this same place, and not the glute med. Well, I think I identified the problem back then, and on my right side I seem to use my Quadratus Loborum to help with the side leg raises. So today when I woke up with a sore right QL, I remembered that I used to get a sort of pump in there on the right side, instead of the right glute med. I have to focus very hard on not using it in order to target my glute med on that right side. Today I'll try it and focus and see if I get the burning in the glute med and not the QL.

I have no idea what this could mean. Just QL compensating for weak

Steven Low 10-13-2010 03:15 PM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
Could be.... could also be you're rotated.

Do you still have the leg length difference?

If so you may want to try the self SI joint stuff wfs

Or have the chiro pop it and then just not go back to him after that, and hope it holds while you do the other mobility stuff

Arturo Garcia 10-14-2010 08:44 AM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).

I think I might be onto something. Before telling you, let me say he did that adjustment shown in the 54 second video from your article, where he pushed my shoulder back and my hip forward, kinda. There was a pop but not too loud.

Two days ago, in fact the very same day he did that manupulation, I decided to dust off my Egoscue DVD and did it. Yesterday I woke up with a sore QL in the right side. A quick Google search brought up this article: WFS:

This part got my attention big time:

Because most people sit for 90% of the day, their quadratus lumborum muscles are short, tight, and overused. If you have back pain that is only on one side of your lower back, thereís a good chance itís the quadratus lumborum on that side. If (1) you have a quadratus lumborum muscle thatís causing you pain only on one side and (2) no obvious injury initiated the pain (e.g., a fall), your pain could be coming from your everyday sitting habits. For example, if, for some reason, you like to cross your legs when you sit, and you frequently only cross them one way (e.g., always right over left), this means there are unequal forces on your back. To keep you sitting up, one of your quadratus lumborum muscles is then engaged. Some people have a tendency, when they cross their legs while sitting, to shift their weight onto the butt cheek of the uncrossed leg. For example, crossing your left leg over your right means you lean slightly to the right, with, say, 70% of your weight on your right sit-bone, 30% on your left. This isnít a problem, unless you do it for 12-14 hours a day, every day (like most of us do when weíre sitting). If this is habitual, that means one of your quadratus lumborum muscles is doing most of the work all day while you sit.
This article spoke to me. For over 10 years I ALWAYS sat with my right leg crossed over my left, the outside of my right ankle over the top of my left thigh. My right glute is therefore way more flexible and this probably contributed to the outward rotation of that right leg. I cannot even comfortable place my left leg like the right, in fact it slips down if I don't try to hold it there on purpose. I am 100% sure that I always crossed my right over the left, never alternated, and I did this through hischool and while at the university and up until maybe 2-3 years ago when I started having problems with this and I suspected crossing the legs wasn't making it any better.

Like I said, yesterday I woke up with a sore right QL... from what? Doing a few side laying leg raises? C'mon !! It's still sore today, by the way.

Now here's the thing... the main function of it is to laterally flex the trunk. Looking where it's attached, I am wondering if a tight right QL has contributed to what the chiro saw when I layed supine, that my right hip bone was a little higher than the left. (By the way Steven, the legs themselves are equal length).

Also, about 3 days ago a lady that works with the chiro, while applying heat to my lower back, said to him that she felt she could dig deeper in my right side by putting preassure with her hand. The Doc told her it was nothing but I was laying prone, so I didn't see their faces. I mentioned this today, and he said he noticed this but told her to shut up (with a sign) so I wouldn't worry, he said he didn't want to tell me just yet, but he was always aware that the problem was in the lumbar area. I don't know if to believe him but he sounded honest. And he did state repeateadly that the problem was there.

I just don't know if it makes sense. If my right QL muscle is very tight or overused or whatever, is it normel that someone would feel an "emptyness" in that right side, poking from around the lower back area?

If I stretch this right QL right now it hurts a bit, the good kind of pain, though, that you get when stretching a sore muscle. I think I will have to stretch this QL muscle everyday for a few weeks, and see what happens. I am wondering if a tight and overused right QL is the root of all my problems.

When I do stuff like single leg hip extensions, or single leg hip thrusts... I'd get a HUGE pump in what I always thought was my right lower back.... but I suspect now it's always been the darned QL !!! I kept overusing it, no wonder the chiro said it was pretty swollen when I first got there. Which is odd to me: how could it be swollen but at the same time you can dig deeper with the fingers around that area? Maybe when it gets swollen and tightened it just shrinks and gets harder, or something similar?

I would really like to hear Steven and Mike on this theory. I know Internet diagnosis is not the best, but yesterday I found a post of mine from February 20th 2008 talking about this same subject!!! That depressed me. 32 months ago!! Wtf? I really need to solve this. I remember back then I did the Egoscue DVD for 2 weeks and saw improvements, but I dropped it forever. I've done it 2 days now, and will do it for several weeks, while at the same time stretching the QL everyday with the stretch from the article I linked above. I might just go to the chiro every couple of weeks in case I need manipulation, or I could do it on my own.

By the way Steven, I once did a similar manipulation to the guy in the video, I lowered to the bottom of an air squat, placed a long wooden block between my knees (maybe a foot long) and tried to crush it with them, and I did feel a loud pop. I might actually try it today and see what happens, since the guy in the video just says to put both fists between the knees. I wonder if doing it laying down is better than standing up and the bottom of a squat.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm kinda excited, I think I might be getting somewhere. Too bad the article itself says that stretching the QL daily might still take weeks to make a difference, ouch. So it's Egoscue + QL stretching daily for me... I gotta put in at least a day of strength training in there, at least upper body or something while I fix this! :)

Mike Mallory 10-14-2010 09:34 AM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
That popping is to be expected......That's your pubic symphisis, which 'pops' back into place when its pulled apart by the adductors. It's representative of an SI joint misalignment.

This is to be expected when you have muscle discrepancies in each leg......And besides that its just so amazingly common in everyone.

I would get your lacrosse ball and dig away at your QLO's......When you don't have anyone to treat joitn misalignments, you can still do all that you can to normalize the tissue around the problem. A lot of times that can solve the problem enough to where you don't have to worry about it......It becomes a subtlety.

remember what I was talking about a few messages back? When the abdominal wall doesn't function correctly, it leaves the SI joint unstable......then the SI joint slips out of place, or the muscles around it tighten up in funky ways to protect the joint-->weird hamstring stuff

Keep diggin' dude! ;)

Steven Low 10-14-2010 10:15 AM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
Sounds alright.

The pop with SI joint or pubic symphysis is likely good as well.

While soft tissue work won't correct the actual imbalance it shoudl be able to loosen up the tissue there to allow us to see what you need to do from there if it keeps slipping out one way or the other

Arturo Garcia 10-14-2010 01:27 PM

Re: Possible cause for foot turned outwards (Steven Low please read).
Thanks for the replies guys. I just ordered a heating pad as suggested by that article, so I can apply heat by myself, hopefully I'll have it sometime next week.

One thing is bugging me though... seeing the location of the QL in a transverse cut (second pic here, WFS:, I realize, again, that in my right (weaker) side, that's exactly where the hand can dig deeper, where the QL is... kindof to the side of the erector spinae muscles. So if this right QL is too tight or shortened or whatever, is it normal that it wouldn't be filling that gap like that?

Next week, or tomorrow, I'll go see another physical therapist and see what he says. In the mean time I'll just keep stretching it.

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