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-   -   Post workout nutrition for a big guy? (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=26353)

Larry Wright 01-19-2008 08:25 AM

Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
I am a beginner. I follow the Zone and I am learning the fundamentals of Crossfit. What is a good post workout meal, when should I eat it, and what is the basic science behind it. I am 6'2 about 345-350 lbs my goal is wieght loss and improved physical fitness.:thanx:

Larry Wright 01-21-2008 03:25 PM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
Can anybody throw me a bone? By science I mean purpose. What is it doing for me exactly?

David Wallach 01-21-2008 04:57 PM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
Hi Larry,

I started my journey at 316lbs at 5'11" and about 42% bf. I am at 230 right now at about 12%bf. Faster, stronger and happier than ever. I know the drill.

PWO nutrition a la classic bodybuilding is basic horsesh*t that was based on some evidense that if the body was in supraglycogen depletion that the insulin spike from tossing back a combo of dextrose/maltodextrin and protein imediately post effort, with zero fat, would cause some magical increase in protein synthesis, so multitudes of athletes were mixing glucose polymers, waxy maize and cold filtered whey isolates while still on the gym floor or worse yet, in the locker room.

Have you ever seen this? People mixing their meal in a room of sweaty naked guys. Um... I'll pass.

If you goal is performance enhancement and FAT loss, then please, within 30-60 minutes post effort, eat. Just eat. Make sure its zone ratio friendly and if you are crushing your workout efforts, make it a meal rather than a snack and leave it at that.

The needs of BBers or Strength athletes that are, in some cases, carrying as much as 75lbs of extra muscle around and have a testosterone level that permits elevated protein utilization, allow for 60-70gms of protein PWO, we normal humans simply should not consume more than about 30gms of protein per sitting. It's real hard for the body to use that under all but the most unusual circumstances (burn victims oft quadruple those needs or more)

Eat to support your LBM(lean body mass) and not your fat. But EAT your food, dont drink it. Make your body work for the nutrients, besides its way more fun to chew it than not.

Brandon Oto 01-21-2008 05:23 PM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
Put strictly factually, the idea with PWO intake is basically to address the elevated metabolic state you've created. You provide a supply of fast-digesting protein and carbs for use in muscle repair and rebuilding. The insulin spike from the quick carbs is also supposed to kill the catabolic process, increase protein uptake, and restore the glycogen your muscles have lost.

A more banal purpose of your PWO meal is just to recharge you in the general sense, so you can go about your day...

Now you guys can fight it out as to the legitimacy of it all.

David Wallach 01-21-2008 05:55 PM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
hey brandon,

The only studies that I have seen that suggest that classic BB PWO protocols help at all have been done on extreme efforts that have lasted longer than 1.5hours. Now, I haven't a clue where the paper is, but I'll do a google scholar search and or ask G. if he knows where to look, but my understanding is that Sprint athletes in short efforts never reach a level of glyco depletion that would maximize the protein uptake and shuttling of aminos that are supposed to occur and are the basis of most of the articles around the PWO craze.

Since Larry's efforts are, and correct me if I overstep here, Larry, based on mitigation of BF first and formost. There is no litt that I have ever seen to suggest that ANY simple sugars PWO are of benefit when fat loss is the primary goal.

So, if your quest is to desperately add lean mass? Go for the Standard BB PWO, I have clients that swear by it. If the goal is rapid fat loss, dont thwart the effort with crap sugars and insulin.


(... on the factual tip, EPOC gets shot to hell as soon as you eat sugars and ditch your glucogon, so the whole sexiness of HIIT is for naught if you go PWO)

Brandon Oto 01-21-2008 06:11 PM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
Agreed on the question of glycogen depletion (you need a significant effort for a good period in order to make a big dent in it), and on most of the other points. This stuff is basically all couched around muscle growth, Larry; it's not for fat loss and if that's your goal, I'd go with the standard Zone schedule.

Larry Lindenman 01-21-2008 06:30 PM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
I'll join the group by saying. If post workout nutrition means anything, it's very small picture stuff (by the way skim chocolate milk has the same nutrient profile as the insanely expensive post workout drinks). You need to get the big picture in place, then deal with small stuff when your going from 12% BF to 6% BF. Right now, nutrition, training, recovery. In that order. You need to be consistent. Don't worry about supplements, except: large amounts of Fish Oil (10g or >). Go for a 45 minute walk every day (separated from the WOD by at least 5 hours). Be consistent and don't cheat for at least a couple of months. Weigh and measure you food for at least 3 weeks, you'd be surprised at what your eating. No calorie containing beverages; only water, tea, coffee.

Larry Wright 01-21-2008 07:52 PM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
[QUOTE=Larry Lindenman;245424]I'll join the group by saying. If post workout nutrition means anything, it's very small picture stuff (by the way skim chocolate milk has the same nutrient profile as the insanely expensive post workout drinks). You need to get the big picture in place, then deal with small stuff when your going from 12% BF to 6% BF. Right now, nutrition, training, recovery. In that order. You need to be consistent. Don't worry about supplements, except: large amounts of Fish Oil (10g or >). Go for a 45 minute walk every day (separated from the WOD by at least 5 hours). Be consistent and don't cheat for at least a couple of months. Weigh and measure you food for at least 3 weeks, you'd be surprised at what your eating. No calorie containing beverages; only water, tea, coffee.[/QUOTE]
Thanks guys. I should have been more clear. I was thinking in terms of Zone and wanted to make sure it wasn't something I shouldn't consider doing? Is milk not good Larry? It's allowable by Zone standards and I drink a cup or two a day mostly before bed. It's an easy way to get my blocks for a snack. David how long did it take you to lose your bf?

Larry Lindenman 01-22-2008 06:11 AM

Re: Post workout nutrition for a big guy?
 
Larry, milk has a lot of simple carbs. I would only drink it after exercise, if at all. Have some non fat, plain, yogurt (I throw in walnuts, a scoop of protein powder and 3 fish oil tabs with water) prior to bed. You could sub cottage cheese for yogurt. You really don't want to drink calorie containing beverages. It's way too simple to ramp up the calories and screw up insulin levels. Some on this board HATE milk. I have a little skim in my morning coffee.


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