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-   -   Pullups and punching power (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=5045)

Gregory Spilson 04-29-2005 05:34 PM

I would tend to think that pullups, the kipping variation in particular, would have great carryover to punching strength due to the transfer of energy from the hip to the shoulder girdle. Guess I'm looking to see if anyone agrees/disagrees. Thanks.


David Wise 04-30-2005 07:49 AM

Maybe I'm just being a dick, but would a pulling motion have any effect on punching power?

Robert Wolf 04-30-2005 08:35 AM

Dig around the archives...this idea has been hashed out a bunch.

David-
Properly engaged the back musculature are major contributers to pressing movements.
Robb

William Hunter 04-30-2005 08:37 AM

I'm not a fighter, just an observer, but most elite boxers I've seen have huge backs and (relatively) flatter chests.

Bo Blakemore 04-30-2005 01:05 PM

the stronger the pull, the stronger the punch. in traditional jka karate, most important is strong hip rotation. i like pavels full contact twist. next is the importance of pulling the drawing hand/elbow back. the stronger it is, the stonget the punch.

bill fox 04-30-2005 03:08 PM

Yes.

Thinking of punching as "pushing" is way off. The armpit has to be connected to the hip. I'm not so hot on the trad JKA pulling back thing,(I did Kyokushin, so, in terms of fighting, making light of JKA was required)I think what Bo says only literally applies to a trad karate reverse punch, but the hip rotation is right on. The FTC is a phenomenal drill for standup fighters.

Pullups are great for building connection/locking down the olblique/lat thing to protect the ribs. This was very important in Kyo where you can't punch to the face, so people were always going for the rib shot.

Anyone actually doing standup fighting should checkout Steve Cotter's stuff.

I still think the heavy/hard heavy bag is the number 1 builder of hard punches. Hit it with wraped but not gloved hands and the truth will be told.

Woody Davis 04-30-2005 04:00 PM

I will still argue that *part* of the equation is the body's own defense mechanism. The back muscles and back of the shoulder must stop the punch and your body is smart enough not to throw a punch faster than your body can stop it. Otherwise, you'd rip your arm out of the socket. Training for baseball pitchers is the same way. It's kind of like not being able to lift as heavy with dumbbells as you can with a barbell. The stabilizers have harder work with the dumbbells and the body will shut down the prime movers if the weight isn't stabilized. Further, the backs of boxer's are built because of all the ballistic loading from stopping the punch which isn't just an arm, but also the gloves and raps. The ballistic loading of kips would mimic this and be helpful in my opinion.

Certainly the ability to put your body behind it (i.e generating power from the hips etc)is very important. As Dan John says, "the body is one piece." (I think it was him who said it).

Bo Blakemore 05-01-2005 06:08 AM

Fair enough Bill. Knowing Mas Oyama ran from the JKA to start his own thing gave us some laughter as well.

I agree with the heavy bag. In traditional striking, simple physics backs up the role of the drawing side as well as the ability to focus or create tension. That's why Pavels theories are so effective.


Pat Janes 05-01-2005 06:44 AM

I just read an interview with Steve Cotter on the Australian Kettlebells site, where he talks about exactly this. Link for those interested:

http://www.australiankettlebells.com/inte.html

A snippet from that interview:

"What are the most notable changes to your body composition since using kettlebells?

My back, and in particular my lats are much fuller and stronger. I’ve learned how to use my lats much better when striking. All heavy hitters learn how to use their lats. You see that in boxing, most of the strong punchers have almost no chest development and tremendous lat development. A great example would be Thomas "Hit
Man" Hearns or Jeff Fenech. These heavy hitters had great lat development and knew how to use them for powerful strikes."


I know almost nothing about the mechanics of striking, but I'm pretty sure Steve does.

William Hunter 05-01-2005 08:07 AM

As you can clearly see from my above post, it should surprise no one that Steve Cotter comes to me for advice and knowledge prior to giving any interviews (dripping with sarcasm).


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