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Matt DeMinico 12-31-2008 01:31 PM

Re: Don't believe in Paleo because...
[QUOTE=Ben Chapman;480468]Ok, I will preface this thread with the statement that we need to be careful. I'm going to broach a topic that could easily descend into personal attacks and some heated, possibly unfriendly debate. I also caution people to not steer it towards religion, it is not the point of bringing this up.

First of all I will state that I think there are some real merits to the paleo diet, people see results with it and I am hugely in favor of consuming foods at their most natural level. Having said that, I am not a paleo believer free and clear. Why? Because one of the prefaces for the paleo diet comes from the concept of millions of years of human evolution. I don't believe in evolution in the sense that most others do; at least not in the sense of descent with modification; or speciation. I was a biology major in college and whenever I requested some evidence from the fossil record or otherwise to show true descent with modification, I came up not only completely dry, but devoid of anyone having examples that THEY had heard of (these are PhDs in zoology, ecology and microbiology). That being said, I have nothing against someone who believes it. I believe that its a THEORY (still a theory, yes) that has support in its favor, but also has some glaring holes and some often swept under and ignored support that is NOT in its favor.

This is all to say, or inquire to any other paleo non-believers out there. I believe that people see results from the diet and that it can work, but mostly because of other reasons: i.e. the hail back to very natural foods of wide variety. For the reasons above though, I do believe that some of the paleo no-nos are still open season for me: certain grains, like rices, oats and some very specific types of corn, I believe that human history is short enough and also intelligent enough that these foods played a role all the way through and are not something to simply be discarded.

Feel free to discuss, you can see how this might descend into a religious topic, which admittedly is where my overall starting point comes from. However, I think that I can talk on a logical and scientific level about it as well.

Agree? disagree?[/QUOTE]

Ben, just to say (without bringing it into an "evolution has a tons of holes" (which I think it does) debate again), I agree with you, let me explain:

Evolution is far from proven, and other theories have just as much, if not more, evidence. [b]I'm not going to go into that debate and/or the evidence here folks, if you want to debate me on that, eMail me.[/b] With that said, there's benefits and drawbacks to the Paleo diet. Principally though, I believe the Paleo diet (like much of our modern geologic, astronomic, biologic, and other areas of science) are based on faulty presuppositions. BUT, luckily for the Paleo diet, some of those presuppositions stand squarely above a rock solid foundation (rock solid in my mind anyhow, namely, those which line up with the Biblical model of creation).

The way I see it (again, debate me in eMails, I just want to present an alternate way of looking at a similar diet), God created everything we need to sustain a healthy body in our world when He made the Earth in the Garden of Eden (I'm going way deep here, but follow me). When the fall of man happened, sin entered the world, and death is a consequence of sin. Poisonous items, creatures that would regularly kill a human for food, etc, all are a result of that corruption. With that said, no longer is everything in the world good for man to consume. But how do we know what's good? There's a lot of Biblical verses on foods to eat, foods to avoid, and even recipes. Similarly, there are some Biblical verses that say to not eat something simply for ceremonial purposes. I'm not going to go too much into depth on these things, but suffice to say, for a good example, look up Ezekiel bread, it's literally got everything a human being needs to stay alive indefinitely during a siege, including all required amino acids and essential fatty acids (a few places make it and sell it, check out their site [url][/url] (w/f safe))

Anyhow, just trying to say, parts of the Paleo diet line up with human ancestry. Up until Abraham, humans were pretty much nomads. They'd roam around, find a place with lots of resources (plants and animals) and eat until it was gone. Then they'd go somewhere else. Eventually there were so many people that they'd run into each other and compete (read: war) for food. Somewhere along the way, Abraham said "Wait a minute, I can cultivate the land and raise herds, and have an even greater return for my effort". This, if done properly, results in just as good health (and actually potentially allows greater activity due to allowing a larger amount of calories to be ingested due to their density in things like grains... try eating only vegetables for your carb source at 25 blocks...)

I'm going way off on a tangent, and this is getting long, and I may be mis-representing a few of my thoughts in there, I kinda just threw it together, but you get the point.

Phillip Garrison 12-31-2008 02:19 PM

Re: Don't believe in Paleo because...
[QUOTE=Matt DeMinico;482508]

Evolution is far from proven, [/QUOTE]

Except for those darn pesky microbes which are evolving all the time. Hence antibiotic resitstant bacteria

John S Park 12-31-2008 02:30 PM

Re: Don't believe in Paleo because...
what does birds turning into fish and the whole argument about macroevolution have to do with hominid nutrition??

what about all the fossils they find of lucy ([URL=""]Australopithecus [/URL] wfs). dating ~ 3 million years ago. homo erectus, ergaster, homo habilis, neandertals, and homo sapiens.. how they evolve from a monkey like species that is the first of its kind to be bipedal 3 mya and progresses toward the form we are today chronologically.. There are several fossil sites all over Europe, Africa, and Asia with all different kind of hominid species. They all had tools and they were hunter gatherers.. Dents in neandertal bones were comparable to rodeo bull rider injuries meaning that they had to wrestle and hunt large animals for food

Joshua Murphy 12-31-2008 03:18 PM

Re: Don't believe in Paleo because...
This was a great discussion that ran its useful course.

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