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-   -   How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping. (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=83704)

Brandon Fleeman 08-14-2013 07:22 AM

How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping.
 
With a 275K first place prize, I would assume some athletes are at least using testosterone. Athletes could use testosterone injections to train and qualify for the open, regional and world championship and simply cycle off the injections before the championship round or before and after the regional round if there is drug testing at regionals.

Is there any way to keep athletes from doing this? What kind of drug testing do they do at the games? At regionals?

Very interested to know if there is anyway to keep the integrity of this sport intact.

If most all the riders in the Tour de France can dope, surely there are people getting away with it in the Crossfit community.

John Holcombe 08-14-2013 07:41 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
I'm not sure if you're allowed to talk about this on the crossfit.com site. This might get deleted. But I believe the drug testing policy is explained somewhere either on this site or on the games site. Try doing a little searching around because I know I've seen it posted before.

I would think that whatever Lance and the Tour de France guys took might also be a benefit for crossfit (endurance). I can't imagine that they test year round, but definitely before/during the games.

Paul Coomans 08-14-2013 07:52 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Brandon Fleeman;1186452]With a 275K first place prize, I would assume some athletes are at least using testosterone. Athletes could use testosterone injections to train and qualify for the open, regional and world championship and simply cycle off the injections before the championship round or before and after the regional round if there is drug testing at regionals.

Is there any way to keep athletes from doing this? What kind of drug testing do they do at the games? At regionals?

Very interested to know if there is anyway to keep the integrity of this sport intact.

If most all the riders in the Tour de France can dope, surely there are people getting away with it in the Crossfit community.[/QUOTE]

There's only testing at the games. So you have close to an entire year to do whatever you want.

I think it's safe to say this rather large window of opportunity is not left unused by all.

Charles Golden 08-14-2013 08:57 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
There's no doubt that if someone wanted to dope in CF and they had the means to purchase something synthetic, they could get away with anything they want. Drug testing is only at Regionals and the Games and it's only a **** test, so all of the designer stuff wouldn't be detected at all, whether they were cycling on and off or not.

That being said, I don't think the prize money is high enough yet to attract big money dopers. If a guy bought designer PEDs and won the Games, I don't think he'd be walking away with that much monetary gain. But that's just my opinion obviously, I've certainly never priced the stuff but I'd imagine it ain't cheap.

John Holcombe 08-14-2013 09:07 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Charles Golden;1186474]There's no doubt that if someone wanted to dope in CF and they had the means to purchase something synthetic, they could get away with anything they want. Drug testing is only at Regionals and the Games and it's only a **** test, so all of the designer stuff wouldn't be detected at all, whether they were cycling on and off or not.

That being said, I don't think the prize money is high enough yet to attract big money dopers. If a guy bought designer PEDs and won the Games, I don't think he'd be walking away with that much monetary gain. But that's just my opinion obviously, I've certainly never priced the stuff but I'd imagine it ain't cheap.[/QUOTE]

People who just work out for fun and to look good take them all the time. I don't think it's as expensive as you say. I don't really know though

Eric Montgomery 08-14-2013 09:23 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Charles Golden;1186474]There's no doubt that if someone wanted to dope in CF and they had the means to purchase something synthetic, they could get away with anything they want. Drug testing is only at Regionals and the Games and it's only a **** test, so all of the designer stuff wouldn't be detected at all, whether they were cycling on and off or not.

That being said, I don't think the prize money is high enough yet to attract big money dopers. If a guy bought designer PEDs and [B]won the Games, I don't think he'd be walking away with that much monetary gain[/B]. But that's just my opinion obviously, I've certainly never priced the stuff but I'd imagine it ain't cheap.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that most top ~10 Games finishers have endorsement deals with clothing and supplement companies. And most are gym owners, so the added attention from their Games performance drives more business their way.

Even still, I agree that the pool of money is still too small to make it wildly profitable. If Games champs start showing up in primetime TV ads for Chevy and Nike and Red Bull it'll be a different story.

Sean Dunston 08-14-2013 09:24 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Paul Coomans;1186462]There's only testing at the games. So you have close to an entire year to do whatever you want.

I think it's safe to say this rather large window of opportunity is not left unused by all.[/QUOTE]

You are wrong.
They test at Regionals and they test at the Games.
They also do out of contest testing.
For more info:

[url]http://games.crossfit.com/drug-policy[/url]
wfs

Jordan Derksen 08-14-2013 09:53 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
An up and comer who no one knows about could hit a hard strength cycle and get majorly strong, then cycle off and do 4 months worth of conditioning and basically be gauranteed regionals though. They'll only test the top guys randomly through the year. Mr. Garage gym can do whatever he wants until he decides to compete though.

I think the real problem with some of that stuff though is if you cycle on and off properly you permanently alter your body. So maybe you did steroids 3 years ago and just found crossfit. Still gives you a leg up on everyone. But it is what it is.

Sean Dunston 08-14-2013 10:05 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Jordan Derksen;1186496]An up and comer who no one knows about could hit a hard strength cycle and get majorly strong, then cycle off and do 4 months worth of conditioning and basically be gauranteed regionals though. They'll only test the top guys randomly through the year. Mr. Garage gym can do whatever he wants until he decides to compete though.

I think the real problem with some of that stuff though is if you cycle on and off properly you permanently alter your body. So maybe you did steroids 3 years ago and just found crossfit. Still gives you a leg up on everyone. But it is what it is.[/QUOTE]

yep - that is definitely an issue.

Paul Coomans 08-14-2013 10:16 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Sean Dunston;1186486]You are wrong.
They test at Regionals and they test at the Games.
They also do out of contest testing.
For more info:

[url]http://games.crossfit.com/drug-policy[/url]
wfs[/QUOTE]

Not according to Dan Bailey: "There's no year round testing on anybody"

Watch from 4:30 for the exact quote. What it comes to is that it is very easy to do.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4OZyEXhCyY[/url]

WFS

Sean Dunston 08-14-2013 10:21 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Paul Coomans;1186506]Not according to Dan Bailey: "There's no year round testing on anybody"

Watch from 4:30 for the exact quote. What it comes to is that it is very easy to do.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4OZyEXhCyY[/url]

WFS[/QUOTE]

That may be Dan Bailey's experience, but that is not the policy.
Roll the dice and risk receiving a lifetime ban.
No one athlete is bigger than the sport.

[QUOTE] Selected Types of Drug Testing

Championships Testing

CrossFit Games individual/team championships events, selection of athletes may be based on random selection or position of finish.

Unannounced Random Testing

All registered athletes who have signed the drug-testing consent form are subject to unannounced random testing. This includes at Sectional and Regional events for the CrossFit Games, and/or any other CrossFit sanctioned athletic events. Random selections will be generated electronically, maintaining objective and unbiased athlete selection.

Reasonable Suspicion Screening

An athlete may be subject to testing at any time when CrossFit determines there is individualized reasonable suspicion to believe the participant is using a prohibited substance. Such reasonable suspicion may be based on objective information as determined by CrossFit, and deemed reliable by such. Reasonable suspicion may include, without limitation, 1) observed possession or use of substances appearing to be prohibited drugs, 2) arrest or conviction for a criminal offense related to the possession or transfer of prohibited drugs or substances, or 3) observed abnormal appearance, conduct or behavior reasonably interpretable as being caused by the use of prohibited drugs or substances. If suspected, CrossFit will arrange for a no notice drug test. Note: The possession and/or use of banned substances may be determined by means other than urinalysis. When an individual is found to be in possession and/or using such substances, he/she will be subject to the same procedures that would be followed in the case of a positive urinalysis.[/QUOTE]

John Holcombe 08-14-2013 10:23 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Sean Dunston;1186508]That may be Dan Bailey's experience, but that is not the policy.
Roll the dice and risk receiving a lifetime ban.
No one athlete is bigger than the sport.[/QUOTE]

I was listening to a crossfit podcast where they brought Dan Bailey in to talk and it was interesting. One of the first things they talked about was PEDs (because Dan is so big) and he basically told them that it would be easy to cheat. He made it clear that all he knows is he doesn't use them and Rich doesn't use them. He doesn't know about anybody else.

Charles Golden 08-14-2013 10:25 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=John Holcombe;1186479]People who just work out for fun and to look good take them all the time. I don't think it's as expensive as you say. I don't really know though[/QUOTE]

The people that are doing that though probably aren't getting synthetic or designer stuff though (I'm guessing). The stuff they're getting is what would pop on a **** test. (disclaimer though, just because I watch Big Bang Theory doesn't mean I know a lick about nuclear physics...just like because I watch/follow sports doesn't mean I know a lick about PEDs)

Paul Coomans 08-14-2013 10:26 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Sean Dunston;1186508]That may be Dan Bailey's experience, but that is not the policy.
Roll the dice and risk receiving a lifetime ban.
No one athlete is bigger than the sport.[/QUOTE]

Policies that are not actually enforced are meaningless. Now I don't know if they are or not but according to Bailey no one gets tested outside the games season so that's some very relevant information.

Sean Dunston 08-14-2013 10:30 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=John Holcombe;1186509]I was listening to a crossfit podcast where they brought Dan Bailey in to talk and it was interesting. One of the first things they talked about was PEDs (because Dan is so big) and he basically told them that it would be easy to cheat. He made it clear that all he knows is he doesn't use them and Rich doesn't use them. He doesn't know about anybody else.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, John, that is the podcast (youtube link) that Paul linked to in his post above.

I agree with you on that's what Dan said.

To all-
Dan is confident neither he, nor Rich, are using. That's great - I'm glad he's confident about that.

He also states that there are not year-round tests, but also failed to mention that there is testing at Regionals. Why didn't he mention that? It could have been a simple oversight, since he's obviously been through it at Regionals, so I don't know how that slipped his mind. Perhaps other things have slipped his mind about this issue too -- I do not know.

I have copied the testing rules above.

User beware.

Lucas King 08-14-2013 12:07 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
It doesn't actually say they do random out of competition testing in the policy. It says they can do random testing at crossfit sanctioned events or they can test under special circumstances where it is suspected (there is some manner of evidence) the person is using.

Sean Dunston 08-14-2013 12:33 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Lucas King;1186552]It doesn't actually say they do random out of competition testing in the policy. It says they can do random testing at crossfit sanctioned events or they can test under special circumstances where it is suspected (there is some manner of evidence) the person is using.[/QUOTE]

Right. But that is just semantics. They have the authority to test you whenever they want when you sign the consent form.

It also says this in the Rulebook at page 6 ([url]http://media.crossfit.com/games/pdf/CrossFitGames_RuleBook130130.pdf[/url]) wfs:

[QUOTE]Registration, Participation and Qualification for all Athletes requires consent to CrossFit’s Drug Testing Policy. All Athletes are subject to Drug Testing during any point in the season once they have registered to compete, including during the Open. The Drug Testing policy is outlined at
[url]http://games.crossfit.com/drugpolicy[/url][/QUOTE]

So, I guess a lot of you guys think this is too lax of a standard. Is that right?

What do you propose? In the Open, people pay $20 to participate. Do you know what a standard steroid test costs? About $75. Obviously it doesn't even matter what 98% of the participants in the Open are taking, because they won't be going to Regionals or the Games. That is, unless they win an Open event because a cash prize is up for grabs... then I say, "Test him/her." At Regionals, the people who advance are tested.

Other than that - who really cares? The sport is still very young.

I have no doubt out of competition testing will begin in earnest in the not-too-distant future. As it is now, the reward is not huge (potentially winning $275,00 -- but only if you beat EVERYONE else), and the risk is pretty severe (lifetime ban).

Carry on.

Charles Golden 08-14-2013 12:45 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Sean Dunston;1186560]What do you propose? In the Open, people pay $20 to participate. [B]Do you know what a standard steroid test costs? About $75[/B]. Obviously it doesn't even matter what 98% of the participants in the Open are taking, because they won't be going to Regionals or the Games. That is, unless they win an Open event because a cash prize is up for grabs... then I say, "Test him/her." At Regionals, the people who advance are tested.

Other than that - who really cares? The sport is still very young.

I have no doubt out of competition testing will begin in earnest in the not-too-distant future. As it is now, the reward is not huge (potentially winning $275,00 -- but only if you beat EVERYONE else), and the risk is pretty severe (lifetime ban).

Carry on.[/QUOTE]

And I assume that's only for a urine test right? Blood testing is much more expensive?

John Holcombe 08-14-2013 01:27 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Charles Golden;1186565]And I assume that's only for a urine test right? Blood testing is much more expensive?[/QUOTE]

Plus these guys who are doing multiple workouts a day in preparation for the games don't want to have blood drawn a bunch of times i'm sure.

Sean Dunston 08-14-2013 01:42 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Charles Golden;1186565]And I assume that's only for a urine test right? Blood testing is much more expensive?[/QUOTE]

Correct. That's the quote I got for urinalysis for USAPL doping control.

Doug Lantz 08-14-2013 02:07 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
Surely no CrossFitter would even consider cheating ! :rolleyes:

Watch "Every Second Counts" Dave Castro uses the C word describing the actions of one competitor in particular (who hasn't competed since)
It only took until the second year of Games before someone tried it.

We also have to consider that as the sport continues to grow it will attract athletes who see it as just a professional opportunity no love for CF or other competitors.

I recall a thread from 2009 asking this same question, one poster pointed out "even if you win it's only $5000, who would do that ? !"

Another poster said he competed in amateur bodybuilding and powerlifting and he knew of guys using.
Win one of those contests and all you get is a plastic trophy or something.

All the people who have flunked tests so far seem to have done so innocently, just didn't realize that whatever they took wasn't allowed.

I believe Ben Bergeron was the first name to be made public.
I recall reading that a competitor tested positive at the 2009 Games but got eliminated after the first cut anyway, never was named

Bergeron flunked because he drank Jacked3D correct ?

He apologized profusely, all the comments were along the lines of "no need to apologize Ben, we all believe you weren't trying to cheat"

I sure hope Sean is right, that the out of competition testing continues to increase to a world class level.
Maybe they could use the biological passport ?

I think it's necessary to ensure the sport continues to grow and gets taken seriously by the mainstream.

Paul Coomans 08-14-2013 09:12 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
As long as the games remain an open competition, one anybody can participate in, there is simply no possible way to test everyone on a regular basis.

I very much like the idea of an open competition though. I'm just not that naive to think that everyone is doing it clean when the opportunity to cheat is so great.

Doug Lantz 08-14-2013 10:03 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Paul Coomans;1186701]As long as the games remain an open competition, one anybody can participate in, there is simply no possible way to test everyone on a regular basis.

I very much like the idea of an open competition though. I'm just not that naive to think that everyone is doing it clean when the opportunity to cheat is so great.[/QUOTE]

Greg Glassman said on a video when they introduced the Open concept that if someone cheats to make it into Regionals their incompetence will be quickly exposed.

He was talking about affiliates submitting invalid scores by counting questionable or flat out bogus reps but the concept is the same.

His notion was that if you're 39th or whatever in your Open region you're highly unlikely to advance past Regionals anyway due to the much smaller doorway.

Paul Coomans 08-14-2013 11:58 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Doug Lantz;1186716]Greg Glassman said on a video when they introduced the Open concept that if someone cheats to make it into Regionals their incompetence will be quickly exposed.

He was talking about affiliates submitting invalid scores by counting questionable or flat out bogus reps but the concept is the same.

His notion was that if you're 39th or whatever in your Open region you're highly unlikely to advance past Regionals anyway due to the much smaller doorway.[/QUOTE]

The concept is not the same. You can train for an extended period with the performance benifits that something like a suped up testosterone level provides. Enhanced recovery is a biggie. Come off a few months before games season and enter the competition. In the season you're back to natural levels but that suped up training period has certainly benefitted you.

Sean Dunston 08-15-2013 06:33 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Paul Coomans;1186727]The concept is not the same. You can train for an extended period with the performance benifits that something like a suped up testosterone level provides. Enhanced recovery is a biggie. Come off a few months before games season and enter the competition. In the season you're back to natural levels but that suped up training period has certainly benefitted you.[/QUOTE]

A "few months before the games season" is the Regionals season; and a few months before Regionals is the Open.

If we get to the point that an "out of nowhere" person crushes an Open workout, then eyebrows will be raised. Money is on the line for the winner of Open events. I don't think it will be long before those persons are tested.

Once you've identified yourself as a "contender" then you are potentially going to be tested.

I can very easily see the requirement of Open athletes being tested. It wouldn't be difficult. If the WOD happens at an affiliate then the doping control officer would/could/should be the affiliate owner and that person would be on the line for collection and chain of custody purposes. If the risk of losing elibigilty to participate in games season - or losing affiliation - were on the line, the seriousness of the situation would be evident. If the person did a video submission (non affiliate WOD), then I'd say make collection of the prize money and validity of the score be contingent upon that person reporting to the nearest affiliate or certified lab for testing.

That doesn't solve out of comp testing, but it does get closer to year round.

Once athletes are known to be top-level they could be in the pool of those subject to random testing. Once their "number" is pulled, they need to report to testing (as above) within 48 hours, or some other reasonable time frame, but not too long time frame, to get tested.

I am confident we will see this in the evolution of our sport.

Paul Coomans 08-15-2013 06:57 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Sean Dunston;1186766]A "few months before the games season" is the Regionals season; and a few months before Regionals is the Open.[/quote]

With games "season" I include the regionals. The regionals are start in may, the games end in july. That gives you roughly 8 months to do whatever you want.

[QUOTE]I am confident we will see this in the evolution of our sport.[/QUOTE]

I think so too.

John Drohan 08-15-2013 09:06 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
I think it's sad that the denials by the likes of Dan and Rich are going to be met with skepticism mainly due to athletes in other sports.

Look at cycling, baseball, track and field, etc. For every person found to have used PED's, there is a denial on record somewhere. I don't think I've ever seen anybody accused of using immediately come forward and admit to it. It's always deny first, apologize later (if necessary).

So really, any denial nowadays gets taken with a grain of salt. Dan and Rich could legitimately be clean as a whistle, yet we'd be lying if we said some doubt didn't remain.

Andrew Joseph 08-15-2013 09:46 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
Sadly, there is a somewhat logical set of reasoning that leads to the conclusion that an athlete is likely to be using PEDs. And it's tough for me not to take it into consideration, even though there is always a plausible chance that someone will not fit the model. The way I look at it is:
1) Would anabolic steroids (increased strength), EPO (increased endurance), etc. signficantly influence someone's performance in the sport? In a completely clean field, could you give the #8 guy PEDs for a year and turn him into #1?
2) Is there any significant number of participants who could reasonably be expected to be using to take advantage of these benefits without getting caught?

If #1 and #2 are both true, then you can conclude that anyone who matches or surpasses the athletes who are taking PEDs either has a huge difference in natural ability or training (very difficult at the top level of most sports) or they are similarly supplementing.

Andrew N. Casey 08-15-2013 11:24 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
i say CF should just let everyone use whatever they want. problem solved.

Greg Wilson 08-15-2013 11:36 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
For what it's worth; just adding to the discussion.

Last year, three teams were disqualified after regionals.

[url]http://games.crossfit.com/article/individual-athletes-clean-three-teams-disqualified[/url] WFS

[QUOTE]Each Regional weekend, Drug Free Sport tested the athletes who qualified for the Games, runners-up (in case a disqualification created an opening) and some randomly selected competitors. This year, CrossFit also added unannounced drug testing during the Open stage of competition, and will test Games athletes again in Carson, Calif.[/QUOTE]

This year, two teams were disqualified.

[url]http://games.crossfit.com/article/two-teams-disqualified-2013-games[/url] WFS

One team was disqualified for failing drug testing, the other team had some sort of ineligibility issue.

Eric Montgomery 08-15-2013 11:52 AM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
But look at what they were DQ'd for....it wasn't anabolics according to any of the reports I saw. The DQs were for stimulants of questionable efficacy. I find it a little odd that [B]zero[/B] people have been busted for any of the readily-available anabolics or endurance-related drugs.

Glenn Baggett 08-15-2013 12:10 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Sean Dunston;1186576]Correct. That's the quote I got for urinalysis for USAPL doping control.[/QUOTE]

Just my take on this subject from someone who competed in a drug sport, powerlifting. If someone is using them, they are waisting their money or thay arent using the real stuff. I dont see any numbers, strength wise that show they use anything. Numberwise, none of the top competitors including Rich, wouldnt break the top 50 in either powerlifting or olypic style lifting in their weight class. This is not put anyone down but their numbers barely scratch the surface in these sports. If we loom at track and field as well as strongman or even long distance running then they still arent there and from that I make a small judgement based on performance.

As for they way they look, none of them are really thick or even carry that anabolic look that the bodybuilders have, even the lightweight guys. They have muscle but bw of 175-200lbs is not hars to have with the right training and diet which is not hard. Add to this the fact that these are the genetically gifted guys of the group then you get a better understanding of performance. Not everyone is blessed and CF is a mix of it all.

Not if you were talking epo or something like that then I would say you might be right. i could say maybe one or two may give it a go but with training being better and smarter, I just dont see it. Not trying to put down CF competitors but I havent seen one that give me the feeling thay are juicing. I grew up in that world and have a good feel for it but lightweight guys squatting 450 and dl 450 with mid 300 cleans with great conditioning doesnt strike me as anabolic, just a good safety in the SEC.....

Charles Golden 08-15-2013 01:37 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Glenn Baggett;1186957]Just my take on this subject from someone who competed in a drug sport, powerlifting. If someone is using them, they are waisting their money or thay arent using the real stuff. I dont see any numbers, strength wise that show they use anything. Numberwise, none of the top competitors including Rich, wouldnt break the top 50 in either powerlifting or olypic style lifting in their weight class. This is not put anyone down but their numbers barely scratch the surface in these sports. If we loom at track and field as well as strongman or even long distance running then they still arent there and from that I make a small judgement based on performance.

As for they way they look, none of them are really thick or even carry that anabolic look that the bodybuilders have, even the lightweight guys. They have muscle but bw of 175-200lbs is not hars to have with the right training and diet which is not hard. Add to this the fact that these are the genetically gifted guys of the group then you get a better understanding of performance. Not everyone is blessed and CF is a mix of it all.

Not if you were talking epo or something like that then I would say you might be right. i could say maybe one or two may give it a go but with training being better and smarter, I just dont see it. Not trying to put down CF competitors but I havent seen one that give me the feeling thay are juicing. I grew up in that world and have a good feel for it but lightweight guys squatting 450 and dl 450 with mid 300 cleans with great conditioning doesnt strike me as anabolic, just a good safety in the SEC.....[/QUOTE]

Man I could not disagree more. I'm not accusing any elite level guys of doping but to say they aren't putting up impressive enough numbers or "look" big doesn't mean a thing. First, they're not focusing on any one aspect so to expect them to be seriously competitive (top 50) in another sport, or to use the fact that they aren't, as proof that they're not doping is ludicrous to me. Olympic level sprinters can't clean 400lbs, but that doesn't mean that they're all clean. Secondly, does Lance Armstrong or Bartolo Colon or Rafael Palmeiro "look" like PED users? With designer/synthetic PED's now I don't think you can just look at someone and say whether or not they're using. This isn't Mark McGwire's world of PED's anymore.

Jeff Enge 08-15-2013 01:41 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Charles Golden;1186982]Man I could not disagree more. I'm not accusing any elite level guys of doping but to say they aren't putting up impressive enough numbers or "look" big doesn't mean a thing. First, they're not focusing on any one aspect so to expect them to be seriously competitive (top 50) in another sport, or to use the fact that they aren't, as proof that they're not doping is ludicrous to me. Olympic level sprinters can't clean 400lbs, but that doesn't mean that they're all clean. Secondly, does Lance Armstrong or Bartolo Colon or Rafael Palmeiro "look" like PED users? With designer/synthetic PED's now I don't think you can just look at someone and say whether or not they're using. This isn't Mark McGwire's world of PED's anymore.[/QUOTE]

LOL @ Big Fat Bartolo Colon :)

Glenn Baggett 08-15-2013 03:48 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
So coming up with reasons why I dont think they are on is rediculous but just saying they are with no proof or reason other than they are the top guys seems rediculous to me. Most true competitors dont care if people are on, they just want to compete against the best.

BTW, the cost of designer ped's is way outside the amount most of these guys can afford. Im sure you all about this because you heard it on the news.

I apologize if I sound harsh about this but these type of accusations **** me off and just come across as sounding like your whining because you cant compete with them. Foe those who work hard to be accused is both a compliment and hateful at the same time. When I competed I wanted to compete against the best no matter what, it just took me longer to win Nationals and pro meets but I did it my way and can say I beat the best.

Sean Dunston 08-15-2013 05:58 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Glenn Baggett;1186957]Just my take on this subject from someone who competed in a drug sport, powerlifting.

Not if you were talking epo or something like that then I would say you might be right. i could say maybe one or two may give it a go but with training being better and smarter, I just dont see it. Not trying to put down CF competitors but I havent seen one that give me the feeling thay are juicing. I grew up in that world and have a good feel for it but lightweight guys squatting 450 and dl 450 with mid 300 cleans with great conditioning doesnt strike me as anabolic, just a good safety in the SEC.....[/QUOTE]

All "I" am talking about in the bit you quoted was a fee for a test, so in not exactly sure what you're talking about here. But, I'm happy to discuss - maybe I'm just misunderstanding what's going on in your statement. Especially with the first sentence quoted above regarding "drug sport".

Was your federation untested? USPAL is tested in and out of competition. Again, I may just be misunderstanding what you've written.

Paul Coomans 08-15-2013 06:25 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
The use of PEDs is incredibly wide spead. Just look at any bodybuilding board on the web and see the ratio of posts in the drugs section vs the other sections. Most of these people are not competitive BBers at all.

And I have to agree with Charles about using looks or lift numbers as any sort of indication to use is silly. There isn't an olympic coach in the world who'll say it's a good idea to train like a crossfitter to put up olympic level numbers. People were so surprised when they found out anabolics were part of the tour de france.. 'They don't look bodybuilders?' No **** you look and perform the way your training dictates.

I'm certainly not accusing anyone in particular. All I'm saying is that given the wide spread use of PEDs and the lack of a proper testing procedure is seems highly unlikely that everybody is clean.

Glenn Baggett 08-15-2013 07:54 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Sean Dunston;1187028]All "I" am talking about in the bit you quoted was a fee for a test, so in not exactly sure what you're talking about here. But, I'm happy to discuss - maybe I'm just misunderstanding what's going on in your statement. Especially with the first sentence quoted above regarding "drug sport".

Was your federation untested? USPAL is tested in and out of competition. Again, I may just be misunderstanding what you've written.[/QUOTE]

PL is rampant with drug use and the USAPL is also in on it. Their out of competition drug testing is a joke. They don't test like they say.... I know from personal experience.

Most of my talk was aimed at those(from earlier in the thread) who talk as if it has to be going on. My take on the competitors don't show the outward signs of even low dose usage. For some reason my not-so-smart phone quoted something I didn't intend too quote.

The cost of testing can be pervasive to the cost of the sport. I have to say that I think the sport is going in the right direction and hopefully will grow without the stumblings that PL had in the early 80's.

Christopher Morris 08-15-2013 08:49 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
[QUOTE=Eric Montgomery;1186943]But look at what they were DQ'd for....it wasn't anabolics according to any of the reports I saw. The DQs were for stimulants of questionable efficacy. I find it a little odd that [B]zero[/B] people have been busted for any of the readily-available anabolics or endurance-related drugs.[/QUOTE]

Odd because the sport seems to be clean?

Or odd because there is ample opportunity to evade testing failure, i.e., it's so easy to get away with that everyone who might be using [I]is[/I] getting away with it.

My take on drug use and testing is -
It's difficult to have a rational discussion because there is so much conjecture. No competitor in CrossFit has failed a test because of steroid use (only stimulant use, and probably inadvertent failure, i.e., I didn't know this prescription medicine would cause me to fail the drug testing).

There are two types who contribute to this conversation - those who are suspicious but have no experience with performance-enhancing drug use, and those who do have experience. It's difficult to have an objective conversation because I have doubts about how much non-users can contribute to the conversation, and for users to contribute to the conversation is to admit wrong-doing. I can't tell who I'm hearing from...:shrug:

I'm an optimist/benefit-of-the-doubt kind of guy, so I like to believe that none of the competitors are using until proven otherwise.

Chris Guillermo 08-15-2013 09:04 PM

Re: How thorough is the crossfit games drug testing? Surely some athletes are doping
 
I'm assuming that the steroids that would be used would be the ones that aid in recovery/endurance, so quick question. Would steroids that were used from June to March (assuming they cycle off a few months before regionals start) still have benefits in May? They wouldn't be using at the games and the benefits for recovery wouldn't be present so wouldn't the volume at the Games hurt the athlete even more due to the lack of recovery aids?


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