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-   -   Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=87296)

Chris Richardson 06-26-2014 03:36 AM

Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
If I can squat 425# and deadlift over 550#... why can I only clean 275# and snatch 185#?

I work on form every day I work on strength…. What are your numbers?
Do you have similar inconstancies or am I just all jacked up?

Eric R Cohen 06-26-2014 04:34 AM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
Try posting in other sections, but sounds like you need to work on technique...

Eric Montgomery 06-26-2014 09:56 AM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Richardson (Post 1234976)
If I can squat 425# and deadlift over 550#... why can I only clean 275# and snatch 185#?

I work on form every day I work on strength…. What are your numbers?
Do you have similar inconstancies or am I just all jacked up?

Are you working on form under the observation of a coach who knows what he/she is doing, or are you just doing the Burgener warmup with PVC then saying "yep, that felt pretty solid."

Practice doesn't make perfect if that practice is just ingraining bad habits.

Mark E. Wallace 06-26-2014 12:09 PM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
They're totally different lifts.

I deadlift over 400# and squat 350# (not all that much, but I'm an old man), but my clean and snatch are, well, not where they should be.

I'm reasonably strong at slow, heavy lifts, but I have no explosiveness. I can apply power, but I can't do it quickly.

And my clean and snatch techniques suck, even though I have good deadlift and squat technique.

- Mark

Chris Richardson 06-29-2014 01:46 PM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery (Post 1235002)
Are you working on form under the observation of a coach who knows what he/she is doing, or are you just doing the Burgener warmup with PVC then saying "yep, that felt pretty solid."

Practice doesn't make perfect if that practice is just ingraining bad habits.

No to the PVC.

I am currently deployed in (for a change) a hospitable environment however, I do not have a coach on hand who is knowledgeable enough that I would trust accepting advice from.

I do however, video some of my lifts for personal review and I email some of my videos to a coach back in the states. He gives me small critiques but nothing major. BTW, snatched 205# today.

Chris Richardson 06-29-2014 01:47 PM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric R Cohen (Post 1234979)
Try posting in other sections, but sounds like you need to work on technique...

Where do you suggest posting this?

Andrew Bell 06-30-2014 08:04 AM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
Take some video's and post them in the digital coaching forums. Can't help if we don't know what to correct.

Chris Richardson 06-30-2014 11:05 AM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Bell (Post 1235289)
Take some video's and post them in the digital coaching forums. Can't help if we don't know what to correct.

I'm sure, as with everyone, there are things to correct. I'm not asking for that, but I greatly appreciate your offer.

If I mathematical brake down my lift: I'm back squatting almost 2.1 times my snatch. However, looking at the national open numbers from Arnold, I would place around the middle of the road - I don't like being in the middle of the pack.

What are your back squat/snatch values? I'm trying to asses a baseline.

For example:
--Mine is 2.1
--Dan Bailey is 1.5
--Jason Khalipa is 1.7
These two men are elite athletes so maybe using there numbers isn't fair.
Lets look around the 48-50th place athletes from the open.
--Matthew Lefave is 1.6
--Jason Hoggan is 1.8
--Mike Juricich is 1.8
Maybe this is still too high level of an athlete...
If I arbitrarily pick athletes who palced around 280-300 from the open I find, out of those with values, 1.7 is the average value.

This is why I asked all of y'all. The values are too inconstant for my liking.
Using 1.7 as a standard value I should be snatching 238... this may be possible with more hard work, but still; what are y'all's values?

Raw Back Squat Weight/Raw Snatch Weight=Ratio

Thanks!

Blair Robert Lowe 06-30-2014 01:54 PM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
Snatch is supposed to be anywhere from 50-65% of BS. DL doesn't mean **** regarding the Olympic Lifts. If you can DL a ****ton more than you Squat, it's because you don't push your squat or you tend to be a long legged lifter.

Klokov is around 63-65%. OTOH Kendrick Farris can hit 280kg for 3 but has only snatched low 160's (kg so 355# or so). Pat Mendes just hit a 187kg (#411) Snatch and squats around 300kg now (#660). That's 62% and Pat isn't even the prettier of lifters.

Bare in mind, Pat once snatched 207/#455 (in straps) and squatted 363/#800 as a SuperHeavyWeight (besides being popped for HGH). Mind you, SHW tend to have skewed lift numbers because of their massive bodies.

A lot of CFers tend to have stronger DL than Squats, especially compared to Weightlifters. This is because they aren't squatting 3x/week or 4/5/6. Undeveloped squatters who also tend to do lots of DL.

There was a young CFer the other day I saw on IG. BS 400ish and OHS or Snatch Balanced 350ish. Snatch was around mid 200's? CJ was 350ish or 375ish. Perfect example of an undeveloped lifter.

Russian ratio is BS=Clean DL. No mixed grip ****. Hips start low. Higher hip start and mixed grip DL bumps up the DL a lot in relation to the BS.

I am by no means an efficient lifter. My best BS is 410 and FS is 347. My best snatch isn't even #200. My best CJ is 105/#231 while my best jerk is #110 from the front and back up to #250ish from BTN (at a higher BW than when I did 110 from the front or back). I was training around 80kg ish but I'm now weighing in at 85+ (fatter) though I have competed as a 77 and that's probably where I will compete again at (once my wrist heals if ever).

Blair Robert Lowe 06-30-2014 04:17 PM

Re: Lifting numbers, inconstancy, and non-transference
 
If your lifts look anything like your OHS...

I could pontificate about what my lifts should have been when I squatted #330/350 and could DL 400+. 60/#135 or a ****ty 175# CJ while FS 250ish. At those numbers, I should have been Snatching #175-200 and CJing #235.

Wouldn't mean jack. Because they were ****ty. I still have the videos hidden on my channel. Ugh.

TBH, a lot of the Elite male CFers have pretty rough form. Some of the girls have pretty good textbook form but I'm not sure I'd say that about all of them across the board.


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