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-   -   A Not so Crossfit Strength Program (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=53482)

Matt Corley 12-03-2009 05:35 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
[QUOTE=Collin Jesse Thompson;705338]
[*]Power Clean 3x5 / some like 5x3[/LIST]
3 non-consecutive days a week, drink your milk, get huge.
(still get the book though)[/QUOTE]

Powercleans should be 5 sets of 3 reps

David Meverden 12-03-2009 06:02 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
[QUOTE=Collin Jesse Thompson;705338]aidan - do it until you stop making linear gains. get the book, the e-wiki does absolutely no justice.
[/QUOTE]

The wiki is great for novice routine nuts and bolts programming questions, but Starting Strength is essential for proper technique. Practical Programming is great, but not necessary for the stock novice program. It's more useful when you get to the point where you need customization.

And yes, as Matt said, the power cleans should be sets of 3 because they are more technique dependent. 5x3 allows for the volume without higher reps sets leading to too much form degradation.

P.S. The other reason to do sets of 3 for power cleans: Rip says so. That is good enough in my book :)

Eugene Goldashkin 12-03-2009 06:39 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
while doing SS i noticed that including Dips and back extenstions also helped tramedously. And if your like me who has a weak squat then you can do 3x10 of good mornings after your squats(this was taken from Dave tates program). But first you should start with just the basic SS and then add anything else. I would include back extensions if your having a hard time staying in your position.

George Noble 12-03-2009 06:52 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
[QUOTE=Barry Cooper;704938]Oi. Just do a 5x5. Two warmup sets, then 3 sets of the best you got.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but did nobody [I]really[/I] have anything to say about this? You warm up until you are warm, not some silly arbitrary number. It inherently limits your strength, because how can you warm up for a 500 lb. squat doing only two sets of 5? You can't, and anyone who has actually squatted 500 lbs knows this. You would have to either get weaker or do a program that doesn't suck. This is about the most ridiculous implementation of 5x5 I have ever seen, and I have several thousand posts on bodybuilding dot com.

Alex Bond 12-03-2009 08:54 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
[QUOTE=George Noble;705430]I'm sorry, but did nobody [I]really[/I] have anything to say about this? You warm up until you are warm, not some silly arbitrary number. It inherently limits your strength, because how can you warm up for a 500 lb. squat doing only two sets of 5? You can't, and anyone who has actually squatted 500 lbs knows this. You would have to either get weaker or do a program that doesn't suck. This is about the most ridiculous implementation of 5x5 I have ever seen, and I have several thousand posts on bodybuilding dot com.[/QUOTE]

How many Crossfitters squat 500#? I like your point, but it's not that huge of a problem in the CF community - most people will be doing their work sets in the 200s, and 135#-225#-2xx# is a decent warmup interval assuming the body has been loosened and warmed up by some DROM movements or something. I wish more Crossfitters were strong enough that it were a problem, but that's how it is.

David Meverden 12-04-2009 04:40 AM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
[QUOTE=George Noble;705430]I'm sorry, but did nobody [I]really[/I] have anything to say about this? You warm up until you are warm, not some silly arbitrary number. It inherently limits your strength, because how can you warm up for a 500 lb. squat doing only two sets of 5? You can't, and anyone who has actually squatted 500 lbs knows this. You would have to either get weaker or do a program that doesn't suck. This is about the most ridiculous implementation of 5x5 I have ever seen, and I have several thousand posts on bodybuilding dot com.[/QUOTE]

Fair point. What was posted sounded more like "3x5 with poor warmup" than 5x5. We did gloss over this. And while, as Alex said, most people around here aren't squatting 500#, a good warmup and proper implementation is important. I also thought that most 5x5 plans had you doing sets across after the warmup, but maybe I'm mistaken there.

Kurt A Gross 12-04-2009 06:51 AM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
[QUOTE=Aidan Macdonald;705329]I am convinced, I will do SS!!

As for the elbows, my swim team isn't top of the line (to be nice). I try hard but coaches and students alike seem to lack motivation.

My goal is to weigh at least 185 (standard weight minimum) hopefully 195.

EDIT:

Is doing it for 2 months good?[/QUOTE]

Do it as long as you get stronger (keep adding weight). I've run Starr's 5x5 for 21 weeks and kept getting stronger, and bigger. That's an intermediate program, but I've been lifting for 23 years. At your age/height/weight, you should be able to run SS for months. I'd guess maybe 4-5 months, maybe even a year or two, but that depends on you really. If you stall, deload, hit it again, you might keep going for a long, long time. EAT! Just remember, you get big in bed, not in the gym. More is NOT better. Don't start adding stuff, get in an out of the gym, get a nap, and enjoy the rest of your life. I wish someone had told me this when I was your age.

Ben Sparks 12-04-2009 12:25 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
[QUOTE=Alex Bond;705485]How many Crossfitters squat 500#? I like your point, but it's not that huge of a problem in the CF community - most people will be doing their work sets in the 200s, and 135#-225#-2xx# is a decent warmup interval assuming the body has been loosened and warmed up by some DROM movements or something. I wish more Crossfitters were strong enough that it were a problem, but that's how it is.[/QUOTE]

I disagree that's a good enough warmup interval, even for work sets in the (high) 200's.

If I ever bothered writing everything down, it would be (based on my last 5x5 squats):

Active warmup, 45x10, 135x5, 185x3, 225x3 is all warmup.

"Working" sets: 255x5, 270x5, 285x5, 285x5, 285x5. Get the last 3 sets across of the SS-style programs, but the first 2 5's are part warmup/part challenging as well and definitely follow the unrecorded warm up. All 5 are "working".

George Noble 12-04-2009 12:46 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
Not many CrossFitters squat 500, but a strength program should at least allow someone to get strong (although the point is to get them there). I am healthy, with good joints, 20 years old, and if I train in a warm room I would feel uncomfortable about putting even 300 on my back with only two warmup sets. There are a couple of other things that were wrong with Barry's program for novices, but the limit on warmups was the most glaring.

David - there are a few 5x5 plans floating around the internet. The Texas Method is straight sets on volume day, Stronglifts is straight sets 3 times a week (like SS, only harder to recover from. ie, it sucks). The Madcow/Bill Starr thing is five sets ramping to one top set. This seems to work, although I don't really like it because it is still prescriptive in warmup sets (like Barry's method, only more sensible because there are four programmed instead of two).

Aidan Macdonald 12-04-2009 01:39 PM

Re: A Not so Crossfit Strength Program
 
I have a friend who want's to do Starting Strength with me. He is 5'6.5, 125 pounds, 7% bf, and is pretty muscular and lean due to wrestling. He was wondering if he would be getting as good results now while on Swim Team, then when he can completely focus on it. The reason he is worried is because during college both his parent's grew like 4-5 inches so he knows he isn't through puberty, and he wants to see significant gains in weight and strength. Also he doesn't want to disrupt his growth, so could lifting this heavy put a damp on his potential height? Would it be possible to do SS now, exhaust all the gains we can, then try SS a year or two later and still see significant gains in strength and size? If not he will probably just do the program when he can fully dedicate to it.


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