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-   -   Explain why the WOD is enough (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=39518)

Skylar Cook 11-24-2008 03:52 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656]Yes Shane I understand by the CF definition of fit that would be the case. And that was the reason I mentioned it in my post. I love crossfit, but I haven't drank the juice quite as hard as you. I'm still able to realize there are other ways to fitness and still try to keep an open mind to those ways rather than simply assuming crossfit is the be all end all to a fitter life. And to say that a marathon runner is not fit seems awful close minded and maybe even a bit ignorant. They may not be "crossfit fit" but they are certainly fit.

Justin: I understand and can see how you can't run a mile after Fran. But it is possible someone who has a better endurance background than you an complete a Fran and then do that cooldown run.

Just as an example,what if someone could do a Fran in a lower time than you and then 5 mins later could run. Would you necesarrily say the only reason they could run is because they didn't give 100%, or is it maybe because they have better endurance, or are more fit?[/QUOTE]

A few points:

1) Ease up a bit bro, you ARE on a CF board, so please accept that most of us are hitting the Kool-Aid pretty hard.

2) Could you please elaborate just what you mean by "fit?" You mentioned that we probably have an issue with how we each define "fit," so what are your criteria for "fitness?" Many here wouldn't call a marathon runner fit, because he is not functional for most things apart from running. Functionality is CF's be all end all fitness definition, and it's tied to strength, stamina, skills, etc. How would you define "fitness?"

3) Cooldown run is entirely different than a mile RUN. I think Justin may be exaggerating a bit here - I think it's entirely possible to hobble a mile after a hard Fran. Slow jogging as a cooldown is possible, but I don't think that's going to fly with most CFers - we don't jog slowly "just to jog." With that said, you show me someone who can put up a [I]respectable[/I] mile time 5 minutes after a balls to the wall Fran, and I'll show you someone who is a F***ING MONSTER.

Patrick Skinner 11-24-2008 04:01 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
Jacob: This post actually started as an explain why the wod is enough. I'm not trying to push her in any direction, rather was just trying to convince her that crossfit is an excellent way to achieve GPP, and that people need not have 1 hr long workouts to see a benefit.

She does occasionally do a modified wod on the one's she enjoys. And I've just been trying to convince her that lifting weights and shorter, more intense runs work just as well if not better at acheiving some of her fitness goals. She also wants variance in her workouts and I've explained that nothing is more varied than xfit.

Christian Gotcher 11-24-2008 04:05 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
You show me someone who could put up a respectable mile time five minutes after Fran... and I'll show you someone who could have done a faster Fran :D

As for the "fit" discussion, I don't think marathoners and long-distance runners [I]who solely practice that sport and show the signs of fringe extremities[/I] are fit by any definition. I focused on running once at the 10-mile range and nothing else, and I couldn't even bench press 125 (I weighed 150). I couldn't sprint fast, do more than 3 pullups, or much else. I thought I was fit, but going into Navy training at that kind of fitness level was a huge wake-up call.

I can't reconcile the inability to lift even one's own BW off the deck (a male long-distance-running friend of mine can deadlift maybe 1/2-3/4 of his BW) with fitness. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I can't reconcile the idea that a mile and a half is 'really long distance' with fitness either...

Patrick Skinner 11-24-2008 04:19 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Skylar Cook;454682]A few points:

1) Ease up a bit bro, you ARE on a CF board, so please accept that most of us are hitting the Kool-Aid pretty hard.

2) Could you please elaborate just what you mean by "fit?" You mentioned that we probably have an issue with how we each define "fit," so what are your criteria for "fitness?" Many here wouldn't call a marathon runner fit, because he is not functional for most things apart from running. Functionality is CF's be all end all fitness definition, and it's tied to strength, stamina, skills, etc. How would you define "fitness?"

3) Cooldown run is entirely different than a mile RUN. I think Justin may be exaggerating a bit here - I think it's entirely possible to hobble a mile after a hard Fran. Slow jogging as a cooldown is possible, but I don't think that's going to fly with most CFers - we don't jog slowly "just to jog." With that said, you show me someone who can put up a [I]respectable[/I] mile time 5 minutes after a balls to the wall Fran, and I'll show you someone who is a F***ING MONSTER.[/QUOTE]
From dictionary.com : fitness : " the capability of the body of distributing inhaled oxygen to muscle tissue during increased physical effort." by this defintion i would describe a marathon runner as fit.

And again I understand it does not fall in line with what crossfit deems as fit, but to just say "they have to scale Fran, they aren't fit" seems narrow minded.

This seems like an agree to disagree point on fit and fitness. The crossfit definition of fitness is the only place where strength, stamina , skills is part of the word fitness. This is fine and I believe those things are necessary, but we as a community shouldn't blow off and disregard the rest of the world's definition and understanding of what fitness is. We can still accept their version of fitness while keeping the crossfit ideals in mind.

Because in the end I think all of us that do crossfit, and do it seriously and take it seriously, as I do, might be wired a bit different than the rest.

Another point we can all agree on is the mile. No respectable mile time will come after a respectable fran, but that mile is meant as a cooldown not as a performance
Someone that can't get their own BW off the deck in my mind just isn't strong. They still might have " the capability of the body of distributing inhaled oxygen to muscle tissue during increased physical effort."

Eric Helms 11-24-2008 04:42 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Brian Bedell;452105]I think a better question is "why is the wod TOO much for most people." She either has not tried it, or does not try or have the ability to workout at the intensity level you are supposed to.[/QUOTE]

Good answer!

Skylar Cook 11-24-2008 05:11 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454685]
She does occasionally do a modified wod on the one's she enjoys. And I've just been trying to convince her that lifting weights and shorter, more intense runs work just as well if not better at acheiving some of her fitness goals. She also wants variance in her workouts and I've explained that nothing is more varied than xfit.[/QUOTE]

By only doing the workouts she enjoys, she's not going to ever improve her weaknesses (which, not coincidentally, tend to be those workouts we hate). Which is fine if that's what she wants, but... You get the point.

[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454696]This seems like an agree to disagree point on fit and fitness. The crossfit definition of fitness is the only place where strength, stamina , skills is part of the word fitness. This is fine and I believe those things are necessary, but we as a community shouldn't blow off and disregard the rest of the world's definition and understanding of what fitness is. We can still accept their version of fitness while keeping the crossfit ideals in mind.
[/QUOTE]

Because the CF definition is the only FUNCTIONAL definition of fitness. :D

S.S. 11-24-2008 05:17 PM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656]
Just as an example,what if someone could do a Fran in a lower time than you and then 5 mins later could run. Would you necesarrily say the only reason they could run is because they didn't give 100%, or is it maybe because they have better endurance, or are more fit?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656]
Another point we can all agree on is the mile. No respectable mile time will come after a respectable fran, but that mile is meant as a cooldown not as a performance[/QUOTE]

The closest track event to a Fran is an all-out 800m sprint. Imagine you are doing a track workout of 4x800m all-out sprints. After you do your last 800m sprint, if you still feel good enough to do 1 mile at a good fast pace, it means you didn't try hard enough on your 800's. It does not mean you have better endurance.

Of course anyone will be able to [I]jog[/I] an easy mile after a hard workout, no matter what it is. If you want to do that as a "cooldown," that's fine, but I don't know of much physiological benefit of that other than releasing some of the lactic acid from your legs. The point is, I don't see why you would do something for training if it gives you little to no benefit.

[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;454656] And to say that a marathon runner is not fit seems awful close minded and maybe even a bit ignorant. [/QUOTE]

Well, if you use cardiovascular ability as the sole definition of fitness, this could be the case. But as a marathon runner myself I don't think it's adequate. A good marathoner may be fit for his or her specialized sport, but not as an overall fit human being.

Rayna McGinnis 11-25-2008 08:25 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
i'm going to have to agree with Christian on this one. If all she does is run and something else occassionally, she's probably in GREAT cardio shape... but she's not fit. Fit would mean well rounded. Cardio, resistance, flexibility, etc.

If your gf feels that her running is enough, that's great. If she feels she only wants to do the work outs that sound fun- she'll never get anywhere new because what she thinks is "fun" is going to be what she's good at... NOT where she needs to work on.

If she wants to improve, she's going to have to work on those skills she does not like... like heavy lifting.

Otherwise, she'll never be satisfied with her level of fitness (and if she's looking to improve, then she's not satisfied).

BTW- to practice what I preach---> I HATE running... I'm also planning to attempt my first 5k tonight after I do my CFT... <shrugs>... what can i say... I did a strong woman's comp this weekend, came in 2nd, would have came in first if I would have worked on my running (sprinting) sooner...

Patrick Skinner 11-25-2008 09:13 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Rayna McGinnis;455175]i'm going to have to agree with Christian on this one. If all she does is run and something else occassionally, she's probably in GREAT cardio shape... but she's not fit. Fit would mean well rounded. Cardio, resistance, flexibility, etc.

If your gf feels that her running is enough, that's great. If she feels she only wants to do the work outs that sound fun- she'll never get anywhere new because what she thinks is "fun" is going to be what she's good at... NOT where she needs to work on.

If she wants to improve, she's going to have to work on those skills she does not like... like heavy lifting.

Otherwise, she'll never be satisfied with her level of fitness (and if she's looking to improve, then she's not satisfied).

BTW- to practice what I preach---> I HATE running... I'm also planning to attempt my first 5k tonight after I do my CFT... <shrugs>... what can i say... I did a strong woman's comp this weekend, came in 2nd, would have came in first if I would have worked on my running (sprinting) sooner...[/QUOTE]
I agree the best thing to do is work on your weaknesses. I think she would see significant improvement in her 5k, 10k, 15k times if she were to work on those weaknesses.

This post really has taken some turns from the original topic. The discussioh as been good though.

Brett Dartt 11-25-2008 09:19 AM

Re: Explain why the WOD is enough
 
[QUOTE=Patrick Skinner;455211]I agree the best thing to do is work on your weaknesses. I think she would see significant improvement in her 5k, 10k, 15k times if she were to work on those weaknesses.

This post really has taken some turns from the original topic. The discussioh as been good though.[/QUOTE]
theres reports all over the boards of people breaking their pr's in running those distances from doing crossfit:D not me though i HATE running :shrug:


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