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-   -   NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away! (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=45884)

Ben Cully 04-27-2009 02:49 PM

NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
I am so frustrated. I have spent weeks on here, Robb Wolfs and a member of Crossfit Journal to get all the info on putting together a Paleo/Zone diet. I am a 31 yr old male, 5'9" 197lb 18%bf "using the caliper method". I have been on and off with crossfit in the past and I dove in and have been dedicated to it the last 2 months and going to stay dedicated. That being why I am trying to get thru nailing down a good diet. I am a Professinal firefighter here in NC. I Workout 5 to 6 times a week and follow up teh WOD with a hour of combatives jutijsu, or kickboxing then may spar for a hour afterwards on the day I am not a the station. I figured my BMI to be about 164 lbs, and with some help here I can up with 18 blocks being my zone.. anyone disagree if so what would be the reason. Ok so at 18 blocks I am following Robb Wolfs advice on 50% of my carbs after my workout which is in the evening. This is how my meals break down

Protien Carbs Fat
Breakfast 5 3 6 blocks
snack 2 2 3 blocks
lunch 4 3 6 blocks
snack 2 2 3 blocks
dinner "PWO" 5 8 0 blocks

again I am folowing what was said in Robb's FaQ about getting in 50% of the carbs "mostly greens and/ veggies" after your workout, and no fat that meal. So i am still at the end of the day getting all my protien, carb and fats. They are all off the Paleo list and measured in Zone proprtions. I have been doing this for about 2 weeks and I don't feel good.
'I hate all the carbs I have to eat, I don't feel full of energy and I am struggling in the gym on the wods. And last but not least I don't see the % BF falling off like I expected..Why?? What do I need to add or rearrange. PLEASE any help would really be appreciated, as this is killing my motivation to be dedicated to something and no seeing results. :confused:

Melissa Urban 04-27-2009 03:19 PM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
[QUOTE=Ben Cully;576048]I work out 5 to 6 times a week and follow up the WOD with a hour of combatives jutijsu, or kickboxing then may spar for a hour afterwards on the day I am not a the station.

Fat: 6 blocks/3 blocks/6 blocks/3 blocks
[/QUOTE]

Ben,

This is why. You are training too much, and not eating enough.

If you are new to CrossFit, the workouts alone are more than enough, especially if you're following the Main Site 3/1 schedule. If you like your hours of jiu-jitsu, kickboxing and sparring, then you probably won't be able to maintain CrossFitting six days a week on top of that. If you're doing the "extra" work on top of the WODs because that's what you think you need to do to lose body fat and get fit, your efforts are understandable, but misguided.

In addition, you're eating single fat blocks. I've not seen many CrossFitters perform optimally without first manipulating their fat blocks - doubling, tripling or more.

Check out [URL="http://*************/?p=138"]this article[/URL] on Robb Wolf's blog, about over-exercising. (WFS) And if I were you, I'd double my fat blocks right out of the gate. Spend two weeks there and see how you do. If you saw an improvement, then triple them. Stay there. If you're starting to get soft, back off. If you continue to see performance improvement, then hang out there... or add even more and see what happens.

But NO amount of fat is going to compensate for being over-trained, or under-recovered. Cut back on the activity levels AND up your fat and I think you'll see some fast results.

Melissa

Brian Bedell 04-27-2009 05:33 PM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
Melissa, can't say that I agree with you here. He is trying to lose weight and you are advising him to 2x from the start and then back off if he is getting soft. Well, he already thinks he's soft! I'm also a lil' surprised that you did not do your "quality before quantity" routine here.

I agree he may be overtraining, but I also think OP needs to let us know what he is eating. All carbs are not the same.

In the meantime OP, have you read RWolf's article "42 ways to skin the zone?" This should help you with all those carbs by subbing some fat for carbs.

I do believe MB and I can agree that this is an individual thing, change one thing at a time to see if it works. If I had to guess, I bet your food quality is not on. Maybe you don't need all those carbs either, I don't.

Ben Cully 04-27-2009 08:51 PM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
Both great replies and I appreciate the time and though. I bought the post by Robb called "42 ways to skin the zone" and I do try and change some of my carbs for fat...actually one carb block for 3 fat blocks. As far as the carbs I am eating, dill pickles, no more the 1 cup of oatmeal a day, lots of brocolie, cauliflower, spinach, spaghitti squash, tomatos, salsa, just starting to a try adding some fruit ie, cherries, pears, and apples. I would say that consists of about 90% of my carb sources. See any problems there that I can change?:thanx:

Troy Becker 04-27-2009 08:58 PM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
Wow, I'm all about working out like crazy and whatnot, even with a physical job, but... CNS fatigue, anyone?

Ben Cully 04-28-2009 04:12 AM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
What is CNS fatigue? Just to keep the record straight. I am not working out to be obsesive about weight loss. I am new to the area, and have been waiting for my financee to come down be with her man and start our life together which as of last night is not happening.....I feel aweful :(so I am taking today off and going to the beach. I know it's not related to anything just wantd a sec to vent.....back to the topic I enjoy doing the challenge of crossfit. I also really enjoy learning the Kickboxing/grappling. I would think I would be leaning out to much if anything. I work 24 hours on, 24 hours off. I am limited what all I can do CF wise at work so I come up with my own intense Firehouse w/o's. On my off days I do CF from 5 to 6 pm, MMA class from 6 to 7/730 and grapple, roll, spar for about 30 to 45 min later.

Noah Martin 04-28-2009 04:43 AM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
I tend to agree with Melissa at least from my zone understanding.

The last thing the body will do if there isn't enough fuel is burn fat. The body goes into survival mode.

Eat more and get the body back to fat burning.
Overworked also sounds about right.

Ever watch the Biggest Loser? OK I'll admit my wife and I do! THere was an episode a few weeks back where the trainer had them videotape what they ate on a typical dat at the ranch (especially since they had seen some low numbers lately)

He was ****ed when we saw the tape. They weren't eating nearly enough!

Also, what are you eating? I find my cheats are what really screw me up.
1-2 cheats per week seems to be too many for my body to shed extra pounds.

Mat Frankel 04-28-2009 04:48 AM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
Brian, I agree with you that 3x and up for fat may be much but with the amount of work that Ben is doing, and cutting 1/2 the carbs he needs more fat. 2x is probably the area to stay in. If hes doing all the work at night the prior meals could be 2x and probably give him some extra energy.

Ben your working out for sometimes close to 3 hours straight...almost every day? No wonder your tired. IMO Melissa is right that you are just not eating enough plain and simple. Think about how it works, you work out all that much and your tired theres obviously something missing there, energy which = food. Need more energ, eat more food.

Robert Johnson 04-28-2009 05:52 AM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
Look at what other successful firefighting jujitsuing kickboxing athletes are doing. Be aware of what standard recommendations are for successful firefighting jujitsuing kickboxing athletes.

Melissa Urban 04-28-2009 06:11 AM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
Brian,

Good stuff, my friend. I didn't hit "quality" for two reasons. The less important reason is because Ben assured me his quality was dialed in. (He said, "Carbs - mostly greens and/ veggies...I am still at the end of the day getting all my protein, carb and fats. They are all off the Paleo list and measured in Zone proportions.")

But even if that wasn't the case... [B]even [I]more [/I]important than the quality of his food is the degree to which he is overtraining and under-recovering. [/B]My response was in priority order - training too much, eating too little. Addressing food quality would be putting the cart before the horse, because NO amount of dietary tweaking would be sufficient to allow his muscles to recover from the VOLUME of work he is doing.

(I don't mean to talk about you like you're not here, Ben. I'm just explaining my thought process.)

So first thing is first - cut back on the activity. Until his body is out of that "panic mode" - which I find is usually one step away illness and/or injury - I don't care about anything else. In fact, if I were in charge of this kid, I'd make him take a few (read, at least three) days OFF entirely, and allow his body to catch up with lots of rest, lots of sleep and good, clean eating. THEN, we can talk about re-establishing a good activity level AND tweaking his diet to support that.

Make sense? Again, I'm not an expert, but I've experimented (and messed up) enough on myself to have learned a few lessons.

Melissa

Jamie J. Skibicki 04-28-2009 12:50 PM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
Hows your sleep?

Ben Cully 04-29-2009 06:55 AM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
So you are thinking better workout management, and more food. I will try and stick more to 3 on 1 off. I just enjoy being there. As for food. I will up my 18 block of fat 2x. I have not been removing any carbs for 3x fat like Robb Wolff says but I will try that. I have such a hard time eating all those greens in my post workout meal. Does that sound like a better plan? I think there are great results to be had, I just have not found that happy place nutritionally yet:) As for sleep, I am pretty good about getting my 8 hours. At work I never..I mean never get 8 hours continous with being on the engine and or rescue we get up alot for runs. At home I get 8 but useually get up once or so the eat/drink/ restroom. I rarely get 8 nonstop sleep thru the night hours. I take Tylonol PM the help sleep when home. I know 8 continous hours is what is Px but I am not sure how to inprove that. I could go for 9 I guess but that is easier said then done being I get up at 5. Any rants on all that? Everyone has been so helpful in this post.....:thanx:

Jeff Evans 04-29-2009 08:43 AM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
[QUOTE=Ben Cully;577411]So you are thinking better workout management, and more food. I will try and stick more to 3 on 1 off. I just enjoy being there. As for food. I will up my 18 block of fat 2x. I have not been removing any carbs for 3x fat like Robb Wolff says but I will try that. I have such a hard time eating all those greens in my post workout meal. Does that sound like a better plan? I think there are great results to be had, I just have not found that happy place nutritionally yet:) As for sleep, I am pretty good about getting my 8 hours. At work I never..I mean never get 8 hours continous with being on the engine and or rescue we get up alot for runs. At home I get 8 but useually get up once or so the eat/drink/ restroom. I rarely get 8 nonstop sleep thru the night hours. I take Tylonol PM the help sleep when home. I know 8 continous hours is what is Px but I am not sure how to inprove that. I could go for 9 I guess but that is easier said then done being I get up at 5. Any rants on all that? Everyone has been so helpful in this post.....:thanx:[/QUOTE]

One thing with sleep - you may be able to get better quality over the same length of time by paying attention to darkness and noise levels. Do some searching around here (and elsewhere) for melatonin, and [U]Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival[/U] (note: a very controversial book). Anecdotally, I tend to feel more refreshed after sleeping in close to complete darkness (can't see your own hand in front of your face) which is certainly consistent with the "melatonin-light hypothesis."

Ben Cully 04-30-2009 01:56 PM

Re: NO ENERGY! WHY? Take a look and pick away!
 
I have been eating my last 5 blocks of fat "almonds" or a extra 5 blocks just as I go to bed and it seems to help me sleep better. Maybe some of my sleep issues are hunger..that being the reason the nuts help. I am trying several other methods I have read about on here to help me rest better as far as light, relax, anxietys, and such. So for the most part any feel I am off with the 18 blocks? I am also trying to get 50% of my carbs PWO"Robb WOlf's idea"....how does anyone get 9 blocks of carbs in at one sitting?????? Last but not least you feel I should double mt fats so 18p 18c 36f. I can give that a try. Thanks again for the help:D


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