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-   -   Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet? (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=23185)

Nicolas Castonguay 11-01-2007 07:32 AM

Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
Which diet is better for these specific cases?

1) To dirty bulk (I don't plan on doing this, just curious)
2) To clean bulk (I do plan on doing this eventually)
3) To lean out while keeping as much muscle mass as possible
4) Is the easiest to follow with a daily intake of 3000 calories
5) Is the cheapest to follow with a daily intake of 3000 calories (yes I'm short on money)
6) Has the most varieties, less restrictions and is the most fun to follow?
7) The easiest not to cheat on.
8) Your personal favorite and why?
9) Best for health?


Any answer would be greatly appreciated

Scott Kustes 11-01-2007 09:54 AM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
Apples to oranges...Paleo is about quality, Zone is about quantity. Anything focusing on the quality of food or health in the above list will lean towards Paleo as you can eat anything on the Zone, so long as it's proportioned. Anything focusing on cheap or easy will lean towards Zone, as you can eat anything so long as it's proportioned.

Paleo is probably easier not to cheat on though as you don't have to worry about balancing fat, protein, and carbs. If it's not Paleo, you just don't eat it.

Personal favorite is Paleo. I do better on a lower carb intake and find that excluding grains, dairy, and legumes does me a world of good.

Darren Zega 11-01-2007 10:18 AM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
Scott,

Actually, newer versions of the zone diet (I'm reading Dr. Sears' "The Anti-inflammation Zone" right now and it's a great read, btw) are become progressively more paleo. Still, Dr. Sears doesn't take quite as hard of a stance against processed food and starch, as does the zone diet, but he pretty much spells out that they're bad for you.

Nick,

To partly answer your question: To add size, period, eat more protein than required for your lean body mass and more calories than you expend - end of story. If you have excess body fat on you (roughly more than 13%) eat a healthy diet (read: paleo or anti-inflammatory zone) and you will clean bulk.

The food pyramid, your personal trainer, and anyone else who tells you need 3000 calories a day - unless you're in military field training, doing the tour-de-France or an Olympian - is an idiot.

As for the last four questions: search the forums for block guidelines based off of your lean body mass and go paleo-zone. I thought everyone in this forum was crazy. I thought that eating rabbit food all day would suck and that I would hate my life on a strict diet.

The first week is always hell, but after that you will feel better than you ever have in your life - and you'll pay less because you're eating less food. Trust me, they're not crazy - just really weird.

Jay Cohen 11-01-2007 11:33 AM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
[QUOTE=Scott Kustes;210624]

Paleo is probably easier not to cheat on though as you don't have to worry about balancing fat, protein, and carbs. If it's not Paleo, you just don't eat it.

Personal favorite is Paleo. I do better on a lower carb intake and find that excluding grains, dairy, and legumes does me a world of good.[/QUOTE]


Scott, I just noticed "you're the modern forager", great blog.
Thanks very much.

Nicolas Castonguay 11-01-2007 01:04 PM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
[QUOTE=Darren Zega;210631]Nick,

The food pyramid, your personal trainer, and anyone else who tells you need 3000 calories a day - unless you're in military field training, doing the tour-de-France or an Olympian - is an idiot. [/QUOTE]

Well I calculated my caloric maintenance level and it gave me around 3kcals. Of course I know it's not accurate, I'm guessing it's a good base level... If I go like I have to do according to the zone diet, and eat 1g of proteins per lean body weight, I would only eat around 160g of proteins and that would give me 2100 calories a day. I highly doubt that can be enough to maintain...

Scott Kustes 11-01-2007 01:25 PM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
[QUOTE=Jay Cohen;210668]Scott, I just noticed "you're the modern forager", great blog.
Thanks very much.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Jay! And I just noticed that I still had my old URL linked in my sig.

Scott Clark 11-01-2007 07:52 PM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
[QUOTE=Scott Kustes;210730]Thanks Jay! And I just noticed that I still had my old URL linked in my sig.[/QUOTE]

That's awesome man! I heard about your blog from Ross Enamait. I had no clue it was you! Great blog.

Alex Europa 11-04-2007 02:58 AM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
[QUOTE=Nicolas Castonguay;210719]Well I calculated my caloric maintenance level and it gave me around 3kcals. Of course I know it's not accurate, I'm guessing it's a good base level... If I go like I have to do according to the zone diet, and eat 1g of proteins per lean body weight, I would only eat around 160g of proteins and that would give me 2100 calories a day. I highly doubt that can be enough to maintain...[/QUOTE]

Nicolas, here is one thing that most people miss by just reading the forums and not going out and spending the $15 on one of the Zone books: if you are eating properly and keeping your body "in the Zone," (i.e.: proper blood sugar, thus insulin levels) your body is able to use the fat that is currently on your body as it's primary fuel source. When you overload your body with carbohydrates (healthy, unhealthy, complex, simple, whatever), you body goes into overdrive to find a home for them. If your liver and muscles are full, then your body will attempt to use what it can as fuel which does two things
1) Forces your daily fat intake to be stored since it is not being utilized
2) When your body realizes that there is no way to use all those carbs, the insulin begins converting them into adipose (fat) tissue

What this means is that with an improper diet, you are required to intake more calories for a given level of activity/body mass. It is inefficient.

Therefore, a diet that has the improper portions of carbohydrates (really all 3 macronutrients, but just bear with me) will cause you to feel like crap, perform like crap (read: not at your highest level), and put on fat.

If you eat right and get your body "in the Zone," on a consistent basis, then your body is able to tap into your current fat stores for the energy it needs, therefore, you are required to eat less food while loosing body fat and **newsflash** gain muscle at the same time.

This is why Coach, Nicole, etc... advocate the Zone (and not Paleo) so strongly. It is the weighing/measuring that put you over the edge.

For those of you currently eating Paleo and not Zone, why? Breads/Pastas? While you CAN eat pretty much whatever you want, that doesn't mean that the Zone recommends it. In fact breads/grains/etc... are considered "unfavorable carbohydrates to be used in moderation). I go days at a time without eating bread and I would actually be able to say weeks if it wasn't for the fact that I eat 1/2 an english muffin (wheat) occasionally with breakfast.

If you're just being lazy (which is my guess if you're currently eating Paleo) then you should try it, you owe it to yourself. If you're eating Paleo then you can (AND SHOULD!!!) continue to eat the natural, free-range, organic foods that you've become accustomed to, all you have to do is a little extra work in the kitchen to make sure everything is properly proportioned.

But I'm just a novice CrossFitter and in the grand scheme of things don't know S***, so don't take my word for it, take Coach's. If you'll trust him enough with your joints/muscles/metabolic pathways, why not trust him with this? Call it a leap of faith, get back to your CrossFitting roots - you though this WOD stuff was crazy, but if it didn't work, you wouldn't be reading this forum. You'd be on bodybuilding.com. Embrace crazy, you have to be stupid not to. :pepper:

Just my meager $0.05...

- Alex

Brad Davis 11-04-2007 07:46 AM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
[QUOTE=Alex Europa;211540]...If you're just being lazy (which is my guess if you're currently eating Paleo) ...[/QUOTE]
Insulting are we? There's no need for that and those are pretty bold words for a novice CFer. I think you'll find a LOT of very high performers who follow The Paleo Diet and use only rough guidelines to determine portions--the simplefit guidelines for example. For that matter, if you look around, you can find elite performers who don't follow either TPD or Zone. You'll also find folks who IF and do great.

Jesse Emers 11-04-2007 10:28 AM

Re: Which diet is more effective in given cases, Paleolithic diet or Zone diet?
 
I'd have to agree with him that people are lazy if they arent zone. I know I am.


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