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-   -   PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=68244)

Dustin Standel 07-14-2011 03:54 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Luke,

I had a lot to catch up on as I haven't read your log in several days...whew. You put out a lot of good info and I have to keep re-reading it to make sure I retain a nugget here and there.

But any way, I notice when reviewing your typical menu and looking at the pictures a distinct lack of traditional breakfast foods (eggs, bacon, sausage [even turkey which is a lean meat], some fruits, etc...). Your beakfast foods look remarkably similar to your lunch and dinner foods.

Maybe it is just an inability to mentally release the paradigm I grew up in, but I like eggs, fruit, and sausage for breakfast. I'm not sure I would readily break away from that type of meal in the morning (I've mostly given up the cereals, except in time crunched mornings). At the same time as I commend your commitment to your health, diet, new lifestyle, I wonder if these types of foods could be consumed in a PaleoZone diet. Could a healthy and tasty paleo zone breakfast be made up with more traditional breakfast foods?

Also, why not permit higher GI foods early in the day - i.e. the first two meals? I find a little fruit (a banana, an apple, or half an orange for example) can be very important to that initial energy in the morning. Along with a stiff cup o' joe.

Mara Rozitis 07-14-2011 05:26 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Hi Luke. Wow! I just took the time to catch up on your log, and I am totally excited for you! Also very much in awe of the fabulous records and research. I definitely don't have all the answers (even for myself) but I'm glad you're starting an exercise regimen. I think it's hugely important for self-confidence and the feeling of empowerment every time you get a new PR. The path you take to do that is going to be whatever works for you. I firmly believe everyone needs to do what works for them, and it's a little different for each of us. Just make sure you get adequate food intake (+ a little fruit, maybe? or tubers?) and rest and don't wear yourself down. Take it one day at a time and if you feel very tired, it's ok to skip the odd workout. I made that mistake last winter and got very, very sick. Antibiotics for weeks on end. Learned the hard way. Now I am more moderate and when my body is tired, I REST. Novel concept!

Anyhow, keep up the great work. You are an inspiration!

Luke Seubert 07-14-2011 06:06 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin Standel (Post 960699)
Luke,
I had a lot to catch up on as I haven't read your log in several days...whew. You put out a lot of good info and I have to keep re-reading it to make sure I retain a nugget here and there.

Thank you for the compliment Dustin. Part of my purpose in keeping up with this Workout Log thread is to provide some good information. I have done a lot of research and study, and picked up some good things along the way. This is my way of sharing such info, for a very specific population that maybe doesn't get quite so much attention in the CrossFit world.

Stay tuned, as I have almost 20 other planned mini-essays and articles on the way in future weeks and months. As I start publishing my exercise workouts though, I will scale back on those essays - they will become more intermittent. Basically, I will publish my fat loss regimen data on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Saturdays, like I have been doing. And then I will publish my exercise workouts 3 On, 1 Off, etc. On the days where there is neither data nor workout, I will publish an article of some kind.

Hopefully others will continue contributing their ideas and input to this thread, making it even more informative and inspirational for those who follow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin Standel (Post 960699)
But any way, I notice when reviewing your typical menu and looking at the pictures a distinct lack of traditional breakfast foods (eggs, bacon, sausage [even turkey which is a lean meat], some fruits, etc...). Your beakfast foods look remarkably similar to your lunch and dinner foods.

Maybe it is just an inability to mentally release the paradigm I grew up in, but I like eggs, fruit, and sausage for breakfast. I'm not sure I would readily break away from that type of meal in the morning (I've mostly given up the cereals, except in time crunched mornings). At the same time as I commend your commitment to your health, diet, new lifestyle, I wonder if these types of foods could be consumed in a PaleoZone diet. Could a healthy and tasty paleo zone breakfast be made up with more traditional breakfast foods?

Also, why not permit higher GI foods early in the day - i.e. the first two meals? I find a little fruit (a banana, an apple, or half an orange for example) can be very important to that initial energy in the morning. Along with a stiff cup o' joe.

Yeah, my breakfasts are not typical, that is for sure. That is sort of the way it is with the PaleoZone diet - conventional breakfast foods don't really match the food lists.

The one exception is eggs. Dr. Barry Sears doesn't like too many eggs because of their high arachidonic acid content. The Paleo diet is OK with eggs. I took a long hard look at them, and while I like eggs, I like high quality proteins even more. While eggs do have protein, you have to consume a lot of fat to get that protein, and if you go with high quality range-fed eggs, it gets expensive. So, for now, eggs are not part of my meal plan. Nor are sausage and bacon, though I like them too. I often have pork tenderloin for breakfast though, and that is a nice, tasty substitute for bacon.

As for the strict adherence to very low Glycemic Index veggies, well, I do that because I am rather carbohydrate sensitive, and going with moderately high protein and low GI carbs helps me out a lot.

Now, that said, that logic made sense when I wasn't exercising. Now that I am, I might take up your advice and kick up the carb content a bit with some fruit during my post workout meal. So I'll probably follow your advice on that one, albeit in my own unique way.

As for energy in the morning, I have been doing just great on that one. I wake up much earlier than I used to - I haven't had to wake up to an alarm for weeks. I have fine energy in the morning and get going without any need for carbs or caffeine. This is a really nice change for me. If I get a full night's sleep, i.e. if the old and sick dog doesn't wake me up during the night - poor thing :( , I can go all day just fine. If I don't get full sleep, then I get a bit drowsy in the afternoon. A quick siesta or even just half an hour of quiet, still time fixes that though. Still, I prefer to go all day non-stop if possible. That is why I'll be increasing my caloric intake, as I noted in a previous post.

Luke Seubert 07-14-2011 06:17 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mara Rozitis (Post 960736)
Hi Luke. Wow! I just took the time to catch up on your log, and I am totally excited for you! Also very much in awe of the fabulous records and research. I definitely don't have all the answers (even for myself) but I'm glad you're starting an exercise regimen. I think it's hugely important for self-confidence and the feeling of empowerment every time you get a new PR. The path you take to do that is going to be whatever works for you. I firmly believe everyone needs to do what works for them, and it's a little different for each of us. Just make sure you get adequate food intake (+ a little fruit, maybe? or tubers?) and rest and don't wear yourself down. Take it one day at a time and if you feel very tired, it's ok to skip the odd workout. I made that mistake last winter and got very, very sick. Antibiotics for weeks on end. Learned the hard way. Now I am more moderate and when my body is tired, I REST. Novel concept!

Anyhow, keep up the great work. You are an inspiration!

Hi Mara,

Thanks for following my Workout Log, and many thanks for the various compliments. I appreciate it, and it helps me keep trucking along.

As I mentioned in my reply to Dustin, I will probably be picking up the carb intake with my immediate post-workout meal. And I will be raising my overall caloric intake each day too. With the exercise, I really need more calories to support a man of my size. There will be big post about this in a few days when I talk about computations for Basal Metabolic Rate.

I will follow your advice about easing gradually into exercise lest I get sick. About six weeks ago, I went walking for two days in a row, and came down with an infection that I had dealt with last winter - a rather nasty two week affair. This time, the symptoms were far less severe, and I was back on my feet in just a few days.

However, I realized that too much exercise probably made me briefly vulnerable to infection due to too much stress on my immune system; even as my really healthy diet and fish oil helped me to fight off the infection quickly and effectively. So I backed off of walks for quite a while.

But now, I feel a lot better. My energy levels are mostly good, and I have more vitality. And I need to exercise, so I will consume more calories to keep myself strong and my immune system humming along, while still losing fat as rapidly as I reasonably can.

Jay Rhodes 07-14-2011 06:31 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Hey Luke!
Just had a quick look through your log. Great stuff man, I applaud you for creating change in your life.
So far, it looks like everything is moving in the right direction brother! I look forward to keeping up with your progress.

All the best,

Luke Seubert 07-15-2011 04:40 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
More-Or-Less A Flat Mile
Time: 18:59
Average Heart Rate: 141 BPM

Comments
Today I walked this in a manner more similar than I did two years ago, when I was hitting the 20:30's with this walk. Back then, as today, I walked to the talk test. If you can say, "Mary had a little lamb", and then you have to inhale, that is a pretty reliable test for good aerobic pace for most people. If you can't say the phrase, you are going too fast. If you can say more of the poem without inhaling, you are going too slowly.

Today, I hit 18:59, which is a new PR for me by over 7%. Unlike past years, I did this not after 10 weeks of aerobic exercise but crappy diet, but after 10 weeks of really healthy diet and fish oil with very little exercise.

Truly, when the CrossFit people say over and over and over that nutrition is the foundation upon which performance is built, they are absolutely correct.

Luke Seubert 07-15-2011 04:42 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Rhodes (Post 960758)
Hey Luke!
Just had a quick look through your log. Great stuff man, I applaud you for creating change in your life.
So far, it looks like everything is moving in the right direction brother! I look forward to keeping up with your progress.

All the best,

Many thanks for your compliments and encouragement, Jay. I very much appreciate it.

Luke Seubert 07-15-2011 04:58 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Yeeeehaaawwwww!!! The 10% Milestone Day Is Here!
Today, my Bodyweight Trend dropped below 383 pounds. I began this odyssey at 425.6 pounds on May 4, 2011. Subtracting 10% works out to 383.04 pounds, and today my Bodyweight Trend hit 382.9 - just below.

According to health experts (WFS), for severely or morbidly obese people, losing 10% of their bodyweight is an important milestone. The health benefits are substantial, and include lower blood pressure, less diabetes, better blood chemistry, and a whole lot more. Many good things happen inside the body. This, in addition to losing a lot of weight and getting off to a good start on a fat loss regimen.

So, today I celebrate my 10% Milestone Day. I am proud and happy about this one, but also determined to keep on grinding on. 20% Milestone Day is coming up around around the bend :-)

Luke Seubert 07-15-2011 05:29 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Seubert (Post 960895)
WOD
More-Or-Less A Flat Mile
Time: 18:59
Average Heart Rate: 141 BPM

Correction:
Average Heart Rate: 146 BPM

Arturo Garcia 07-15-2011 10:21 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Sure Luke I'll share my thoughts.

First of all, congratulations on losing 10% of your weight. So far so good. I will mention just for kicks that I would never recommend to someone losing fat to be measuring themselves DAILY, but if you're absolutely confident that this will not mess you up psychologically (get anxious if one day you weigh more, etc.), then keep doing it. But please be careful and aware that some days weight fluctuates.... just don't stress over these daily numbers you're monitoring so closely. By the end of this year you'll look back and laugh at them.

Luke it seems you really like the CF methodology and have a big desire of doing the 3on/1off schedule, but be aware that it's not the ONLY schedule that works. In fact, most people with a job and a life can't follow this because you'd be working out different days every weak. Which means one week you could workout a sunday but not the next one, etc. What many people do is adpt a 3on/1off, 2on/1off, for example, and this allows you to train the same days every weak and plan yourself better. Just throwing this out there. CFSB, which you mentioned you're interested in doing (eventually), has you working out the same days every week, for example. Just don't think that there's some hidden "magic" to the 3on/1off, wanted to clear that up. You could see great results with 3, 4 or 5 workouts a week.

So lets take a look at your plans as of now.

Day 1 - Starting Strength Routine A
Day 2 - Walking and Variations
Day 3 - Air Squats and/or Wallball
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - Starting Strength Routine B
Day 6 - Walking and Variations
Day 7 - Air Squats and/or Wallball
Day 8 - Rest

Doing SS twice a week sounds great. But let me ask you something since you're eager to do wallballs and tabata air squats. Are you aware that the air squat mechanics are a bit different than the back squat mechanics (which you'll be doing 2x/week in the SS sessions) and could make things a bit difficult? I just want to make sure you know this. A ton of wall balls, while fatigued, might have you using poor form. I'm not telling you what to do, just informing you of this, so you can research. The barbell back squat is the foundation of SS, so anything that could mess up it's form, specially since you're just learning the proper mechanics now.... maybe it's not the best idea.

Seeing you're still 380#, I was thinking that one of the safest, with least injury risk ways of working out a GREAT conditioning workouts, would be a stationary bike. Do you have access to one? And did you know that the original experiment by Dr. Tabata used this implement? ... Yes, I'm not suggesting a long and boring steady 1 hour ride. A Tabata on this piece of equipment is brutal... 20 secs of pedaling as fast/hard as you can (selecting whatever resistance level you're comfortable with), 10 secs of rest.... This, right now, would be a much better idea than tabata air squats that could interfere with your barbell back squats. Also less chance of injury. And you can go really hard (hard for YOU) since you can adjust resistance. I would start with this tabata if I were you. The bike hasthe added benefit that during those 10 seconds of rest, you rest SEATED, which in your case might be even better. It's a brutal workout, though, don't understimate it. I would suggest doing Wall balls with GOOD FORM, so I wouldn't go crazy high-rep or using them in metcons just yet. But this is just a suggestion. If you want to feel like you're "doing CrossFit" and you feel you must do your Wallballs for this - by all means do them. But focus on good form and don't go really high rep. Read up on all the cues for this movement, weight on heels, knees out, don't round low back, chest up, etc... film yourself (or use a good coach) and focus on form. Right now for you learning proper squatting form is way more important than getting "the metcon effect" if you know what I mean.

As for the walks, even if they feel hard for you right now, they'll feel easier each week, and as long as you're WALKING it wont interfere with SS workouts. Eventually when you can sprint some bits, you could do it, but be aware that sprinting could indeed interfer with your recovery needed for SS, if you over do it (sprinting is AWESOME by the way). But walking is fine and perfect for "rest days" and I suposse you're still going to just walk for the time being as you drop some more weight.

And yes, as you strength train you'll get more hungry but just keep it Paleo and don't worry, I don't think your weightloss will stall just yet! :)

Arturo Garcia 07-15-2011 12:22 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
I had to type that very fast but I wanted to type some more.

One thing I was gonna say is this: don't be afraid of eggs. They're good for variety, so maybe as you get hungrier with weight training you might need some variety. And it definitely beats, by a large margin, alternative food choices like bread or whatever. I think the arachidonic acid thing has been debated before and somewhat dismissed? Just keep them as an option, they wont harm your weight loss.

Luke Seubert 07-16-2011 03:21 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Saturday Weekly Body Measurements Update
Date: July 16, 2011

Last Week's Total Body Measurement: 964.0 cm
This Week's Total Body Measurement: 962.5 cm
Beginning Date for Body Measurements - May 14, 2011 - Total Body Measurements: 1009.5
Total Centimeters Lost to Date: 47.0 cm

This was another quite disappointing week on the body measurements front. While I did lose a small amount, unlike last week, my rate of loss has declined significantly since the earlier weeks of my fat loss regimen. How big is this decline? Below is a simple chart showing my Total Body Measurement loss over successive 4 week periods. As you can clearly see, the rate at which my body measurements shrink is steadily declining. Note the very rapid decline for the last two four week periods.

Four Week Period____TBM Lost
Weeks 1-5__________-28.0 cm
Weeks 2-6__________-26.5 cm
Weeks 3-7__________-25.0 cm
Weeks 4-8__________-24.5 cm
Weeks 5-9__________-17.5 cm
Weeks 6-10__________-13.5 cm

I consider body measurements to be my most reliable fat loss evaluation metric, better than bodyweight and body fat composition taken with a handheld bioelectrical impedance meter. While I am still losing bodyweight at a rapid pace, I am no longer losing centimeters off of the big three - chest, waist, and hips. The other measurements are mostly holding steady. This just further confirms my earlier suppositions about how I am now burning more muscle and less fat. I have already begun exercising to counteract this. I will soon alter my diet as well.

Body Measurements for Last Week and This Week
An explanation about "Total Body Measurements" and how I use body measurements to assess fat loss over time may be found in my previous post, "The Humble Tape Measure: Simple But Oh So Useful" (WFS).

Right Thigh: 69.0 cm, 68.5 cm
Right Calf: 51.0 cm, 51.5 cm
Right Ankle: 27.5 cm, 28.0 cm

Left Thigh: 71.0 cm, 71.0 cm
Left Calf: 52.0 cm, 52.0 cm
Left Ankle: 28.0 cm, 28.5 cm

Right Arm: 39.0 cm, 39.0 cm
Right Forearm: 34.0 cm, 34.5 cm
Right Wrist: 20.0 cm, 20.0 cm

Left Arm: 43.5 cm, 42.5 cm
Left Forearm: 34.0 cm, 34.5 cm
Left Wrist: 20.0 cm, 20.0 cm

Neck: 45.5 cm, 45.0 cm
Chest: 145.0 cm, 143.5 cm
Waist: 159.0 cm, 158.0 cm
Hips: 125.5 cm, 126.0 cm

Luke Seubert 07-16-2011 04:03 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
More-Or-Less A Flat Mile
Time: 21:55
Average Heart Rate: 129 BPM

Comments
I took this walk a bit easier than yesterday's pace. I got a little bit stiff from both my hard walk yesterday plus all the other physical activities I was doing throughout the day. So today, I took it a bit easy. Tomorrow I rest, and then I start the 3-On cycle again on Monday. Next week's workouts will be a bit more challenging.

Shout Out To Arturo
See, dude? I can scale it back and take it easy when its called for :)

I'll respond at length to your two previous posts later today. I have to run along and take care of a lot of chores today first.

Luke Seubert 07-16-2011 05:21 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 961047)
First of all, congratulations on losing 10% of your weight. So far so good. I will mention just for kicks that I would never recommend to someone losing fat to be measuring themselves DAILY, but if you're absolutely confident that this will not mess you up psychologically (get anxious if one day you weigh more, etc.), then keep doing it. But please be careful and aware that some days weight fluctuates.... just don't stress over these daily numbers you're monitoring so closely.

It fluctuates? Heh. Yeah, just a bit. I appreciate your concern Arturo, but fear not - I do not in any way stress over minor or even major daily bodyweight fluctuations. With one day's advance notice, I can gain or lose ten pounds of bodyweight in 48 hours. All I have to do is change the food I eat, my exercise intensity, and my salt and water intake. Heck, if it is hot and humid enough outside, I can drop five pounds in an hour. So big fluctuations don't bother me at all - I don't take them seriously. In fact, when I weigh myself each morning, I almost don't care what the number is. To me, it is a piece of data for the spreadsheet, and one I can roughly approximate before weighing myself.

That is why I use the Bodyweight Trend (see my previous post (WFS) about this useful mathematical tool). The Bodyweight Trend smooths out those daily fluctuations, and reveals what is really going on with the data over the days and weeks.

And I don't even sweat the daily changes in Bodyweight Trend all that much. I note it, and move on. I do look at how Bodyweight Trend changes over a week and four weeks. That is useful data, revealing the real trends underlying the bumpy bodyweight data. Read that Chapter 11 - Pen and Paper from "The Hacker's Diet" which I recommended in that post. It explains how and why Bodyweight Trend is so useful. For those focusing on serious fat loss, all you have to do is quickly and easily collect a single, simple piece of data every day to make it work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 961047)
Luke it seems you really like the CF methodology and have a big desire of doing the 3on/1off schedule, but be aware that it's not the ONLY schedule that works. In fact, most people with a job and a life can't follow this because you'd be working out different days every weak. Which means one week you could workout a sunday but not the next one, etc. What many people do is adpt a 3on/1off, 2on/1off, for example, and this allows you to train the same days every weak and plan yourself better. Just throwing this out there. CFSB, which you mentioned you're interested in doing (eventually), has you working out the same days every week, for example. Just don't think that there's some hidden "magic" to the 3on/1off, wanted to clear that up. You could see great results with 3, 4 or 5 workouts a week.

In addition to the physical fitness reasons for my desire to synchronize with the 3 On, 1 Off CrossFit cycle, there are also some good psychological reasons too. I live in a sort of remote area. The nearest CrossFit gym is a long and tough drive away - more than an hour, on a route often plagued with heavy traffic. There is a CrossFit trainer working out of a GloboGym in a town somewhat nearby, but that is 40 minutes away and likewise on a route with bad traffic. So, for my current circumstances, going to a CrossFit gym doesn't work.

Thus, I am left doing my workouts at home. Since I wake up pretty early in the morning, and enjoy exercising then, doing the 3 On, 1 Off doesn't interfere with my schedule. More importantly, it is a way for me to connect with the CrossFit community, even if only in an indirect and virtual sort of way. I also connect to the CrossFit community via long distance by posting to this Workout Log, and by watching a CrossFit video of some kind every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 961047)
Doing SS twice a week sounds great. But let me ask you something since you're eager to do wallballs and tabata air squats. Are you aware that the air squat mechanics are a bit different than the back squat mechanics (which you'll be doing 2x/week in the SS sessions) and could make things a bit difficult? I just want to make sure you know this. A ton of wall balls, while fatigued, might have you using poor form. I'm not telling you what to do, just informing you of this, so you can research. The barbell back squat is the foundation of SS, so anything that could mess up it's form, specially since you're just learning the proper mechanics now.... maybe it's not the best idea.

I am very aware of the proper mechanics for a back squat. I have Rippetoe's book, 2nd edition, and the DVD. I have studied both carefully. I have also videotaped myself to check my form, and will continue doing so to verify that I am doing the back squat correctly.

I have not yet closely studied the correct form for the air squat. When I do, I will note the differences and focus on maintaining the correct but different forms for each exercise.

In addition to air squats and wallballs, I can also do kettlebell swings, albeit with my adjustable dumbbells. (Hmm, I have scrounged up some basketballs for DIY medicine balls (NWFS), maybe I should try scrounging some kettlebells.) This is another great exercise with a lot of variations. Given the concerns you raised about the difference in forms between back and air squats, do you think I should focus more on kettlebell swings? Are there any other exercises you would recommend? (Be aware that bodyweight exercises requiring upper body strength and endurance - like pullups and pushups - aren't viable for me right now. That is why I am going with SS - I really need the bench press and press. Power clean too.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 961047)
Seeing you're still 380#, I was thinking that one of the safest, with least injury risk ways of working out a GREAT conditioning workouts, would be a stationary bike. Do you have access to one? And did you know that the original experiment by Dr. Tabata used this implement? ... Yes, I'm not suggesting a long and boring steady 1 hour ride. A Tabata on this piece of equipment is brutal... 20 secs of pedaling as fast/hard as you can (selecting whatever resistance level you're comfortable with), 10 secs of rest.... This, right now, would be a much better idea than tabata air squats that could interfere with your barbell back squats.

I have access to a friend's stationery bike, and I have read up on Dr. Tabata. I even have a GymBoss timer which I have programmed to do Tabata intervals. I did Tabata kettlebelling with my dumbbell once - that was a devastating workout :-) So, if need be, I can do the stationery bike as you suggest. And you know what? I might do that on some days - it would be a good alternative workout now and then.

However, I am not a huge fan of MetCon exercise that is not done on one's feet, such as cycling and swimming. (Yes, rowing is an exception, because it uses such a large number of muscles.) Most non-load bearing aerobic activities are not as effective as load bearing activities, like running, skiing, etc. The problem with load bearing activities, is that they tend to be moderate or high impact. And since I am carrying 380 pounds right now, such impact would be highly stressful to my joints, tendons, ligaments, muscles, bones, etc.

Happily, I am able to perform some load bearing, low or no impact exercises. For example, I have a Goaler1 G1 Slideboard (WFS), which is pretty close to non-impact and which provides a very unique exercise. I can make it more interesting my using my dumbbells while sliding, swinging them or doing a "Waiter's Slide" to really develop body core muscles. This video shows (WFS) some of the things that can be done with these boards. I also have a sturdy rebounder and a heavy duty stepper, with lots of risers so I can turn it into a plyo box of any height. These devices are great for when the weather is cold and/or rainy, and walking isn't quite so much fun. But I can incorporate them into my current exercise regime sooner than winter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 961047)
As for the walks, even if they feel hard for you right now, they'll feel easier each week, and as long as you're WALKING it wont interfere with SS workouts. Eventually when you can sprint some bits, you could do it, but be aware that sprinting could indeed interfer with your recovery needed for SS, if you over do it (sprinting is AWESOME by the way). But walking is fine and perfect for "rest days" and I suposse you're still going to just walk for the time being as you drop some more weight.

The walks aren't that stressful. While I am quite obese and out of shape, in some ways I am in better shape than I appear. A one mile walk just doesn't kick my :censored:, even if I am doing it somewhat hard, breathing hard, and working up a huge sweat. Next week, I'll be adding more distance to my walks, and switching over to hilly terrain, i.e. natural intervals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 961047)
One thing I was gonna say is this: don't be afraid of eggs. They're good for variety, so maybe as you get hungrier with weight training you might need some variety.

So long as you consider eggs to be a good source of fat, then I have no problem with them. That is what they are. By calories, eggs are 5% carbs, 29% protein, and 66% fat when they are scrambled. So an egg in lieu of olive oil or nuts or whatever is fine. But as a protein source, I don't care for them. If I want to get 30 g of protein for a 350 calorie meal, I need almost 4 1/2 large eggs to get the protein. Problem is, with all that fat in the yolk, the 4 1/2 eggs add up to 450 calories.

Luke Seubert 07-17-2011 06:30 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Computing Basal Metabolic Rate and Ideal Daily Caloric Intake
I have been consuming 2,100 calories per day, and losing just over 4 pounds a week, but losing too much muscle and not enough fat in recent weeks. I need to increase daily caloric intake and exercise more to stop and hopefully reverse this muscle loss, while continuing to lose fat.

So, how many calories should I be consuming? One way to get a handle on this is to figure out my Basal Metabolic Rate, which is the measure of how many calories I need to sustain bodily functions and life, but no other activities, i.e. more or less how many calories I burn while lying in bed all day. Please refer to the WikiPedia entry for Basal Metabolic Rate (WFS) for more information. Once I know that number, I can multiply it by an adjustment factor based upon my activity level, and thus estimate how many calories I am burning each day. I can then subtract 500 calories per day for each pound of weight I want to lose each week, and eat that many calories.

A number of years ago, I had my Basal Metabolic Rate measured in a lab, and I burned through 4,100 calories per day at a sedentary activity level. Unfortunately, that test is no longer available to me locally, so I need an alternative means to estimate Basal Metabolic Rate.

The Ballpark Estimate
Thanks to my careful record keeping and weighing and measuring of food, I know with a pretty high degree of accuracy that I have been losing 4.1 to 4.2 pounds per week while consuming 2,100 calories per day, with a slightly above sedentary activity level. 4.1 pounds lost each week indicates a daily caloric deficit of 2,050 calories; while 4.2 pounds indicates a daily caloric deficit of 2,100 calories. Adding these deficits to the 2,100 calories a day I have been consuming, means that I have been burning 4,150 to 4,200 calories per day. This is remarkably close to my old lab test reading, and thus I consider this seemingly crude estimate to actually be pretty accurate. Let's see how other methods of estimating Basal Metabolic Rate compare.

The Harris-Benedict Equation
The Harris-Benedict Equation uses height, weight, age, and sex to compute Basal Metabolic Rate. It is considered one of the more accurate formulas for people with average levels of fitness. Please refer to the WikiPedia entry for Harris-Benedict equation (WFS) for more details, including the imperial versions of the equations.

For men, the equation in metric units is as follows:

BMR = 66.5 + (Weight in Kilos*13.75) + (Height in Centimeters*5.003) (Age in Years*6.775)

For women, the equation in metric units is as follows:

BMR = 655.1 + (Weight in Kilos*9.563) + (Height in Centimeters*1.850) (Age in Years*4.676)

Plugging my own information into the formula for men, according to the Harris-Benedict Equation, my Basal Metabolic Rate is as follows:

BMR = 3,063 calories per day


The Katch-McArdle Formula
The Katch-McArcle forumula uses lean body mass to compute Basal Metabolic Rate. It is considered to be especially accurate for people who are very athletic and fit, and I have heard that it also works well for people who are very obese. Please refer to the earlier link, the WikiPedia entry for Basal Metabolic Rate (WFS), for more information, including the imperial versions of the equation.

For both men and women, the formula in metric units is as follows:

BMR = 370 + (Lean Body Mass in Kilos * 21.6)

Applying this formula to myself is more difficult than the Harris-Benedict formula. It has been several years since I last had my lean body mass measured. Back then, it was 218.6 pounds, or 99.2 kilos. For various reasons, I believe my lean body mass was pretty close to that number when I began my fat loss regimen over 10 weeks ago. However, I have been losing some muscle mass since then. How much? I am not really sure. However, I can make a few crude guesstimates to come up with a range of possibilities, and plug those numbers into the Katch-McArdle Formula.

So, applying a range of lean body mass estimates, according to the Katch-McArdle Forumula, my Basal Metabolic Rate is as follows:

BMR = 2,513 calories per day, at 218.6 pounds of lean body mass, or 99.2 kilos
BMR = 2,476 calories per day, at 215.0 pounds of lean body mass, or 97.5 kilos
BMR = 2,428 calories per day, at 210.0 pounds of lean body mass, or 95.3 kilos
BMR = 2,403 calories per day, at 207.5 pounds of lean body mass, or 94.1 kilos

According to Katch-McArdle, my BMR is likely somewhere between 2,400 and 2,475 calories per day. Note the wide discrepancy between these numbers and the 3,063 calories per day produced by the Harris-Benedict equation. This is what you can expect when you are well into one of the tail ends of the Bell Curve. These formulas are designed to apply to average people, the great, homegenous middle. However, for somebody who is exceptionally fat, or exceptionally lean, the formulas might not work out quite so well. So it seems that all this calculating has produced not very useful results. Fear not, some more work with the numbers may yet yield useful results.

Factoring In Activity Levels
Basal Metabolic Rate isn't a useful measure for most people. Why? Because most people don't lie in bed sleeping all day, which is sort of what BMR measures. Rather, most people engage in varying levels of physical activity. So, one must assess these different overall activity levels, and multiply an adjustment factor by the BMR, to yield total calories burned throughout the day.

Sedentary - little or no exercise = BMR*1.2
Lightly Active - light exercise or sports 1 to 3 times per week = BMR*1.375
Moderately Active - moderate exercise or sports 3 to 5 times per week = BMR*1.55
Very Active - hard exercise or sports 6 to 7 times per week = BMR*1.725
Extremely Active - hard daily exercise/sports plus physical job, or hard exercise 2X/day = BMR*1.9

Now, here is a bonus for fat people. Carefully and honestly assess your activity level based upon the descriptions listed above. Then, whatever that level is, move up one level, and use that factor to multiply by your BMR to determine total calories burned per day.

For example, if you assess yourself as sedentary, and you are severely or morbidly obese, you do not multiply your BMR by 1.2 - the factor for Sedentary people. Instead, you move up one activity level, and multiply your BMR by 1.375 - the factor for Lightly Active people. Now, why is this so? People who are carrying around a lot of fat actually are doing a lot of work to move all that extra weight around. This is why obese people tend to have decent levels of lower body strength even though they are otherwise unfit - they literally lift heavy weights all day.

Avoiding Starvation
Finally, it is important to avoid consuming too few calories. If one consumes too few calories over a long period of time - weeks or months, the human body responds by altering its metabolism and biochemistry. The metabolism drops, and the body starts conserving fat and burning muscle. A number of other unpleasant changes occur as well.

So, it is important to keep daily caloric intake sufficiently high to avoid these starvation effects. In most cases, this starvation threshold is computed using the following formula:

Starvation Threshold = BMR * 0.9


So, How Many Calories Should I Be Consuming?
The two formulas above produce different BMRs for me. Harris-Benedict says my BMR is 3,063 calories per day, while a reasonable guesstimate with Katch-McArdle says 2,428 calories per day. Is there any way to assess which formula is a better fit for me, and perhaps yield a number close to my ballpark estimate? Let's assess my activity level to find out. I am kind of sedentary, but lately I have been more active. What happens if I multiply my two BMR estimates by the adjustment factors for Lightly Active and Moderately Active, which are suitable for me given my severe obesity? Here are the numbers:

Katch-McArdle BMR = 2,428: Calories burned per day = 3,339 to 3,763
Harris-Benedict BMR = 3,603: Calories burned per day = 4,954 to 5,592

Neither formula really hits my ballpark estimate of 4,150 to 4,200 calories burned per day. Although, Katch-McArdle at Moderately Active comes closer than anything else and it is probably the better formula for me to use. Harris-Benedict produces ridiculously high results.

Now, let's apply the starvation threshold formula to my Katch-McArdle BMR: 2,428 * 0.9 = 2,185 calories per day.

Veeeeery interesting. I have been consuming 2,100 calories per day, but in recent weeks, I have been exhibiting mild symptoms of starvation. According to Katch-McArdle, I should be consuming more than 2,200 calories per day to avoid the starvation threshold. However, I also plan to do some weightlifting in future weeks and months. When doing weightlifting, one's daily caloric intake should never drop below BMR. So, instead of setting a caloric intake threshold of 2,200 calories per day, it should be 2,425 calories per day, or higher. Probably significantly higher, since I will be doing other exercise besides the weightlifting, and I should include more calories by way of fudge factor to compensate for all this estimating, just to be on the safe side. Stay tuned...

Luke Seubert 07-18-2011 04:58 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Monday Weekly Body Fat Composition Update
Date: July 18, 2011

BFC Average 2 Weeks Ago: 42.1% (Approximately 4% understated compared to hydrostatic immersion)
BFC Average 1 Week Ago: 41.9%
Current BFC Average: 41.5%
Beginning Date for BFC - May 4, 2011 - BFC Average Then: 44.6% (Approximately 4% understated compared to hydrostatic immersion)
Total BFC Average Lost to Date: 3.1%

What a weird two weeks it has been. After seeing my rate of BFC loss drop noticeably, it seems to be picking up in the last half week or so. Some of that was because I took two readings just after exercising. Showering, or sweating after a workout - a humid body, cause the finicky Omron to show a low reading. See those two 41.3% readings back to back? Those were taken after workouts. Notice how they are bookended by all those 41.7% readings? Those were taken under normal circumstances. And I have no explanation for the 41.1% reading, except that friends came over with pizza and I had some, which I regret as I am not used to that kind of and that much carb anymore, and I think all the salt and stuff caused some water retention and dropped my reading. As I have stated in the past, the Omron is finicky.

Anyway, all that explaining aside, it is also possible that the regular exercise I am now doing is also accounting for the declining BFC readings. Time will tell soon enough.

BFC Readings and Average For The Past Two Weeks
The BFC Average listed below is a simple 7 day moving average. It tends to overstate current BFC slightly as it lags behind the real data, but it smooths out erratic BFC readings and shows the actual BFC rate of change over time. Readers curious to know more about how to effectively use an Omron or any other bioelectrical impedance body fat composition meter should read my previous post, "How to Get Semi-Useful Body Fat Composition Data Out of a Bioelectrical Impedance Analyzer" (WFS).


__Date_______BFC Reading_____BFC Average
Mon, Jul 04, 2011_______42.0%_______42.1%
Tue, Jul 05, 2011_______42.0%_______42.1%
Wed, Jul 06, 2011_______41.9%_______42.1%
Thu, Jul 07, 2011_______41.9%_______42.0%
Fri, Jul 08, 2011_______41.8%_______42.0%
Sat, Jul 09, 2011_______42.1%_______42.0%
Sun, Jul 10, 2011_______41.9%_______41.9%
Mon, Jul 11, 2011_______41.7%_______41.9%
Tue, Jul 12, 2011_______41.7%_______41.9%
Wed, Jul 13, 2011_______41.7%_______41.8%
Thu, Jul 14, 2011_______41.3%_______41.7%
Fri, Jul 15, 2011_______41.3%_______41.7%
Sat, Jul 16, 2011_______41.7%_______41.6%
Sun, Jul 17, 2011_______41.7%_______41.6%
Mon, Jul 18, 2011_______41.1%_______41.5%

Arturo Garcia 07-18-2011 09:29 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Hey Luke, just now seeing your reply. A few thoughts!

Glad you're not obsessing with the daily numbers, I guess there's no concern there.

I understand your desire to do 3on/1off now and if suits your lifestyle then go for it! I did it for only a brief period in 2008 but since I don't workout first thing in the mornings, it did get in the way sometimes, so I prefer to have the same workout days each week. But it seems you'll do great on it. For now, though, I just hope at least one of your 3 day cycles is just the long walk. (And it is, looking at your proposed schedule we looked on a few posts back). :)

I will add one thing though: just by lurking the forums and reading on the nutrition and fitness aspects and all that, I guess that makes you "part of the community". That doesn't mean you have to do 3on/1off to be "doing crossfit". Or that you have to do X number of weekly metcons to consider yourself "a crossfitter". Many in here do strength training or oly lifting or gymnastics and probably still consider themselves part of the community. You don't have to follow mainpage WODs to be part of it, or anything like that. :)


Quote:

I am very aware of the proper mechanics for a back squat. I have Rippetoe's book, 2nd edition, and the DVD. I have studied both carefully. I have also videotaped myself to check my form, and will continue doing so to verify that I am doing the back squat correctly.

I have not yet closely studied the correct form for the air squat. When I do, I will note the differences and focus on maintaining the correct but different forms for each exercise.
Do a search on these very same boards, there have been quite a few people who have stated that the air squat mechanics are different, and doing a ton of air squats will mess up your back squat form. I didn't make this up, others with more knowledge than me have said it. But it's up to you to choose. If the air squat is just a tool for conditioning workouts (as it's certainly not a strength move), then if it's gonna mess up your Very Important back squats... you might as well choose another conditioning tool. Makes sense from that point of view. But like I said, don't take it from me, search for posts discussing this (I don't have the links saved unfortunately!!) so you decide by yourself.

Quote:

Given the concerns you raised about the difference in forms between back and air squats, do you think I should focus more on kettlebell swings? Are there any other exercises you would recommend?
Definitely! Much better conditioning tool that wont give you "bad" squat habits. (Again, they're not "bad", but different). It has many benefits like working your posterior chain a lot, and most untrained individuals lack strength there... in fact most untrained folks will feel squats much more in their quads at first. The swing helps build a strong posterior chain and I personally like the fact that it's an antero-posterior hip extension movement. (squat, DL and PC are all hip extension movements where the load moves from down to up, but the swing moves it from back to front, this activates the posterior chain a bit differently according to some studies; similar to Sprinting in this regard). I guess the only concern with the swing, is that if you're not too flexible in the shoulders, you can arch your low back too much in order to lock the weight overhead. If this is an issue (film yourself), just do the swings until your arms are horizontal while you work on shoulder flexibility, and then do them to overhead.

Quote:

However, I am not a huge fan of MetCon exercise that is not done on one's feet, such as cycling and swimming. (Yes, rowing is an exception, because it uses such a large number of muscles.) Most non-load bearing aerobic activities are not as effective as load bearing activities, like running, skiing, etc.
Ok I'm gonna have to ask: what do you mean by "not as effective"? Before answering, remember that a MetCon or an Interval Workout has a purpose, and in many cases it's not to build huge strength (For strength, there's dedicated strength work which you WILL be doing in the SS workouts). And, I remind you again that Dr. Tabata first experimented with the stationary bike and he saw the results he was looking for.... increased V02 max and all that stuff. So how was this not effective? (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to hear more of your take on this).

Quote:

The problem with load bearing activities, is that they tend to be moderate or high impact. And since I am carrying 380 pounds right now, such impact would be highly stressful to my joints, tendons, ligaments, muscles, bones, etc.
Luke, this is EXACTLY why I recommended Tabata stationary bike. Set the resistance to a challenging level for you and believe me, it will feel as hard as a load-bearing activity. There is no impact on this equipment. And it wont imprint bad mechanics on you like I feared doing a lot of tabata air squats would. This is why I recommended it. I hope you at least try it once before dismissing it. Sure, once you are lighter and fitter and you can do Tabata sprints or tabata burpees or whatever else, you can forget about the bike if you feel it's not effective. But I can't see how it wouldn't be effective, for the purposes of "building metcon" (not strength), if Dr. Tabata's subjects all saw gains....? ;)

I had never seen a Slide Board before, looks fun, and I'm glad you like to use it!

Nice to hear that a one mile walk doesn't kick your butt. I bet in a year you'll be saying the same for a one mile jog! :yikes:

About the eggs, I was just saying that they're not as much a concern as it was made out to be because of the arac.acid, and they can be good for variety. Variety is good so you don't get bored of the same foods over and over. An omellete can be made with many different ingredients and just add a different thing to your diet. I wasn't suggesting that you get most of your protein from eggs, lol. :D

On another note I just read your post about how much you should be eating. Interesting indeed. If you're losing 4+ pounds a week it's almost a guarantee that some of it it's muscle. I don't know if this is backed up by science or if it's "bro-science", but the figure thrown around on these boards is usually 2# per week or so... if you're losing more than that, then some of it it's probably valuable tissue and it's not all fat.

I guess you've realized this, though, through your measuring, or your "mild symptoms of starvation". So maybe you'll up those 2,100 calories a bit? I'll be interested to hear what you'll do about this (hopefully eat a bit more).

Luke Seubert 07-18-2011 05:03 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
Date: July 18, 2011
1.1 Mostly Flat Miles: 20:12
Heart Rate: 143 BPM

Comments
Wow! What a lousy result. Last week I had a gentle walk with a lower heart rate, but for a nearly equal time. Today, my heart rate was higher, but the time was slow. And it felt harder.

What happened? I ate half a pizza last night when some non-Paleo friends came over. (I didn't care for the pronounced effects - racing heart and some insomnia.) As a result of a bit of poor diet and lack of sleep, my walking time sucks despite elevated heart rate.

Sleep and Diet - the keys to performance.

Luke Seubert 07-18-2011 05:10 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
Glad you're not obsessing with the daily numbers, I guess there's no concern there.

Yeah, I don't obsess over the daily numbers. I just obsess over collecting and analyzing data :-)

It pays off though - without that data I would not have spotted the mild starvation problem so quickly, and my need for more calories and exercise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
I will add one thing though: just by lurking the forums and reading on the nutrition and fitness aspects and all that, I guess that makes you "part of the community". That doesn't mean you have to do 3on/1off to be "doing crossfit". Or that you have to do X number of weekly metcons to consider yourself "a crossfitter". Many in here do strength training or oly lifting or gymnastics and probably still consider themselves part of the community. You don't have to follow mainpage WODs to be part of it, or anything like that. :)

Understood. There is a fair amount of variation in CrossFit. I have a small collection of different WOD webpages, which is rather fascinating. In the end, for me, doing the 3-On, 1-Off routine is my little way of doing CrossFit, even though for now I'm really not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
Do a search on these very same boards, there have been quite a few people who have stated that the air squat mechanics are different, and doing a ton of air squats will mess up your back squat form. I didn't make this up, others with more knowledge than me have said it. But it's up to you to choose. If the air squat is just a tool for conditioning workouts (as it's certainly not a strength move), then if it's gonna mess up your Very Important back squats... you might as well choose another conditioning tool. Makes sense from that point of view. But like I said, don't take it from me, search for posts discussing this (I don't have the links saved unfortunately!!) so you decide by yourself.

I will research the boards as you suggest. Still, I do like the conditioning one can get from medicine balls. Aside from wallballing (both with and without the air squat) and HooverBall, are there any other medicine ball exercises I should be aware of?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
Ok I'm gonna have to ask: what do you mean by "not as effective"? Before answering, remember that a MetCon or an Interval Workout has a purpose, and in many cases it's not to build huge strength (For strength, there's dedicated strength work which you WILL be doing in the SS workouts). And, I remind you again that Dr. Tabata first experimented with the stationary bike and he saw the results he was looking for.... increased V02 max and all that stuff. So how was this not effective? (I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to hear more of your take on this).

Good point. What I wrote was unclear. Here is what I should have said:
Load bearing aerobic exercises are more efficient at improving cardio-respiratory endurance than non-load bearing exercises. Such exercises produce better results with less total exercise time.
Moreover, you are right about Tabata exercise. It is more efficient still - very efficient. That said, I suspect a load bearing Tabata exercise, like running, will be more efficient at improving cardio-respiratory endurance than a non-load bearing Tabata exercise, like swimming.

From our conversation, I am leaning towards a modification of my exercise plan.
Day 1 - SS A or SS B Routines
Day 2 - Walking of some kind
Day 3 - Metcon, preferably kettlebell, but some medicine ball too
Day 4 - Rest

While I would increase the intensity of the walking over time, it would still be a sort of "active rest" day, suitable given my excess weight and poor condition. The tough exercise would be the Starting Strength routines - ramped up very slowly; and the Metcon work. Remember, the purpose of this exercise is not so much to get CrossFit fit, but rather to burn some more calories and slow down my muscle loss, and hopefully maybe increase muscle mass a little bit. All this, so that when I have lost a lot of the excess fat I am carrying, I am better ready to go hardcore on Starting Strength and to hit the scaled CrossFit WODs when the time comes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
Luke, this is EXACTLY why I recommended Tabata stationary bike. Set the resistance to a challenging level for you and believe me, it will feel as hard as a load-bearing activity. There is no impact on this equipment. And it wont imprint bad mechanics on you like I feared doing a lot of tabata air squats would. This is why I recommended it. I hope you at least try it once before dismissing it. Sure, once you are lighter and fitter and you can do Tabata sprints or tabata burpees or whatever else, you can forget about the bike if you feel it's not effective. But I can't see how it wouldn't be effective, for the purposes of "building metcon" (not strength), if Dr. Tabata's subjects all saw gains....? ;)

Me grumbles about brutality of Tabata Kettlebells, or Tabata anything, but concedes the point :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
I had never seen a Slide Board before, looks fun, and I'm glad you like to use it!

Yeah, I'm surprised I haven't read more about the CrossFit community using slideboards for MetCon workouts. Sliding works some muscles that normally don't get much activity - those hip abductors and adductors. Sliding with dumbbells or kettlebells adds some great intensity. Or, how about sliding back and forth while wallballing? That would not only require stamina and strength, but it would be a great balance, coordination, and agility workout too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
About the eggs, I was just saying that they're not as much a concern as it was made out to be because of the arac.acid, and they can be good for variety. Variety is good so you don't get bored of the same foods over and over. An omellete can be made with many different ingredients and just add a different thing to your diet. I wasn't suggesting that you get most of your protein from eggs, lol. :D

Yeah, I agree with you about the arachidonic acid - there is some concern, but not too much. I'll consider tossing in some eggs down the road - a little variety doesn't hurt. That said, I am regularly eating five different protein sources, all of them high quality, so I think I am doing well there. Plus, in all these diets, the real variety comes from the herbs, spices, and recipes - not so much the foods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962043)
On another note I just read your post about how much you should be eating. Interesting indeed. If you're losing 4+ pounds a week it's almost a guarantee that some of it it's muscle. I don't know if this is backed up by science or if it's "bro-science", but the figure thrown around on these boards is usually 2# per week or so... if you're losing more than that, then some of it it's probably valuable tissue and it's not all fat. I guess you've realized this, though, through your measuring, or your "mild symptoms of starvation". So maybe you'll up those 2,100 calories a bit? I'll be interested to hear what you'll do about this (hopefully eat a bit more).

Yes, I plan on upping the calories. I'll be posting a query about this to the Nutrition forum, probably later this week, soliciting feedback and advice. When I first began this diet at 2,000 to 2,100 calories per day, I knew that was low, and thought that I would be forced to up the caloric intake within just a few weeks. Almost 11 weeks later, I am doing quite well overall, with only a few, rather mild starvation symptoms. Still, I need more calories to lose the fat and not so much muscle.

While 2 pounds per week is the common advice, I think I can safely push a bit higher than that - maybe around 2.8 pounds per week. Recall that I am a very big boy - about 150% of Reference Man. Reference Man is used in the medical and scientific communities to describe the average male, in terms of size, weight, metabolism, drug dosage, etc. I have about 150% of Reference Man's Lean Body Mass, which is why I believe I can safely burn off more than just two pounds a week.

Anyway, that is what I will try to do. Given how much data I collect, I'll know if my guesstimate is correct or not in a few months.

Luke Seubert 07-19-2011 05:15 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Zen Habits: Top 20 Motivation Hacks
This will be a very brief but hopefully a very useful post.

The blog, zenhabits (WFS), recently published a summary of various articles about how to motivate oneself in pursuit of a goal. This summary contains a brief description of each of 20 motivational habits, tricks, techniques, what-have-you; along with links to more in-depth articles. It is a fantastic resource. When it comes to losing fat, eating healthy, and getting fit; we can all use all the motivation we can get. So, I present to all those reading this thread...

Luke Seubert 07-19-2011 06:20 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
Date: July 19, 2011
Walk 1.1 Mostly Flat Miles: 18:50
Heart Rate: 152 BPM

Comments
Now that's more like it! Back to a proper PaleoZone Diet and with a good night's sleep, I set a new PR despite the muggy weather. Summer has really arrived in Southern Maryland. When you go outside early in the morning, and you are hit with a blast of hot, humid air - you know the filthy part of summer has arrived. And it does affect performance. My heart rate was higher than last Thursday's walk, despite near equal times. I'm sure as I get more fit, the mugginess won't impact my performance as much.

Arturo Garcia 07-19-2011 08:09 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
It all sounds great Luke. Just to finish on the Wallballs: I have nothing against them, provided you don't do workouts like Karen (150 for time) because this WILL interfere with your SS workouts.

Remember, the SS programs are for strength and mass. The metcons are for conditioning. So you should try and pick moves that wont mess you up for the following SS session. A ton of wallballs could do it, but if you do a Metcon of some wallballs and something else, then it wont ruin you. I also don't think the wallball screws up squat form as much as air squats do, because you're holding weight in front of you similar to a front squat.

I noticed you asked about what other moves you could do and I didn't give more suggestions. Well there are several that come to mind but since you're still quite big I don't want to suggest many things. The good news is you're dropping weight week by week so very soon you could incorporate new moves. Box jumps, for example, are very challenging metabolically. You absorb the shock with the calves though, and both at the same time, so it should be more low-impact than a jog where you land on just one foot. And you can start with a very low box if need be, 6 inches or whatever. Notice they pop up VERY often in mainpage WODs. Rope jumps for that matter could be possible eventually, these are even more low-impact as you only jump a tiny bit off the floor (just enough to pass the rope) and again you use both calves at the same time. This is VERY tiring. And I'm talking single jumps, not the Double Unders you commonly see in WODs. The rope jump is quite effective and I advise you to consider it. Also inexpensive, can be done indoors if there's bad wether, etc.

As far as adductors/abductors go... these muscles are used in a variety of exercises and movements and don't really need you to work them in isolation. Although for you I find the Slideboard good because at present time I feel you may not be able to do the moves that use those muscles, without actually pefroming an abduction/adduction of the leg.

The first time I tried some max effort sprints (less than 100m) I was shocked at how sure my adductors were. The same thing happened the first time I tried the Bulgarian Split Squats (holding dumbells). My adductors were quite sore the next day which I did not expect. Logic tells me that with both exercises I should have sore hip flexors, glutes, hamstrings... but not adductors since I'm not pulling my leg to the center of my body, right? Wrong! You'll see.

Similary, by abductors you're talking mostly glute Medius right? Once you do things like Walking Lunges you'll realize these get a tremendous workout without actually having todo laying leg raises, heh. The 1-leg Romanian Deadlift has given me some of the bigges glute med. soreness ever. Most single-leg stuff will use these muscles. Like I said, maybe now at 380# you can't do much in the way of 1-leg drills, but judging by your progress and determination, very soon you'll be fit/light enough for a much wider variety of exercises.

Luke Seubert 07-20-2011 03:34 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Wednesday Weekly Trend and Bodyweight Update
Date: July 20, 2011
Today is the end of Week 11 of my fat loss regimen.

Last Week's Bodyweight Trend: 383.9 lbs
This Week's Bodyweight Trend: 381.0 lbs
Last Week's Bodyweight: 378.8 lbs
This Week's Bodyweight: 378.0 lbs
Beginning Date for Bodyweight Measurements - May 4, 2011 - Bodyweight: 425.6 lbs
Total Bodyweight Trend Lost to Date: 44.6 lbs
Total Bodyweight Lost to Date: 48.6 lbs

The trend that started to show up last week, is now very obvious this week. My rate of bodyweight loss is slowing. Where before I was consistently dropping 4.1 to 4.2 pounds per week, I am now dropping weight in the high 2's and low to mid 3's per week. Also, I have been stuck in the high 370's for a while now. I tend to plateau around a weight, and then one day, or over a few days, I'll drop a number of pounds and slowly establish a new plateau. I have no idea why I follow this odd pattern.

However, I do have some ideas about why my rate of weight loss is declining. First, since I concluded that I am eating too few calories, I have been adding a bit more fat to my meals, and I haven't been so exact with my kitchen scale. Bumping up the caloric intake in this informal manner means less bodyweight loss. Also, I have been exercising regularly, 3-On, 1-Off. In my unfit condition, it is possible that even walking builds up a little muscle, which also can explain the phenomenon. My body might also be retaining more water to cope with the heat, humidity, and exercise. Finally, some friends came over and I had pizza at the beginning of the week. Not a huge amount, but enough to slow things down. I'll be more stringent with my diet and stick to Paleo foods in the coming week.

Finally, some good news. My BFC rate of loss is increasing. I am showing faster rates of loss of body fat recently, and this directly corresponds to the time I began exercising. So the exercise is having a positive impact. My fat loss rate seems to be increasing, and my muscle loss rate seems to be declining, or maybe even stabilized or increasing slightly. I won't know for sure until I check body measurements this coming Saturday. Hopefully I'll see some progress there as well.

Bodyweight and Trend for the Past Week
The Trend listed below is an exponential moving average with 10% smoothing. It tends to overstate current bodyweight as it lags behind the real data, but it smooths out erratic bodyweight readings and shows the actual bodyweight loss rate over time. An explanation of the "Trend" calculation's utility may be found in my previous post, "Turning Bodyweight Into A Semi-Useful Metric" (WFS).

______Date________Bodyweight_________Trend
Wed, Jul 13, 2011_______378.8 lbs_______383.9 lbs
Thu, Jul 14, 2011_______379.0 lbs_______383.4 lbs
Fri, Jul 15, 2011_______378.6 lbs_______382.9 lbs
Sat, Jul 16, 2011_______379.8 lbs_______382.6 lbs
Sun, Jul 17, 2011_______378.0 lbs_______382.1 lbs
Mon, Jul 18, 2011_______379.2 lbs_______381.8 lbs
Tue, Jul 19, 2011_______377.0 lbs_______381.3 lbs
Wed, Jul 20, 2011_______378.0 lbs_______381.0 lbs

Luke Seubert 07-20-2011 03:53 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962494)
It all sounds great Luke. Just to finish on the Wallballs: I have nothing against them, provided you don't do workouts like Karen (150 for time) because this WILL interfere with your SS workouts.

As Dirty Harry said, "A man has got to know his limitations." Don't worry, I am not up for things like Karen yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962494)
Remember, the SS programs are for strength and mass. The metcons are for conditioning. So you should try and pick moves that wont mess you up for the following SS session. A ton of wallballs could do it, but if you do a Metcon of some wallballs and something else, then it wont ruin you. I also don't think the wallball screws up squat form as much as air squats do, because you're holding weight in front of you similar to a front squat.

OK, since you point out that air squats and too many wallballs interfer with SS back squats, what about kettlebells interfering with SS power cleans? How would you recommend I set up my schedule to deal with this? I can do kettlebelling two days before or two days after I do power cleans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962494)
I noticed you asked about what other moves you could do and I didn't give more suggestions. Well there are several that come to mind but since you're still quite big I don't want to suggest many things. The good news is you're dropping weight week by week so very soon you could incorporate new moves. Box jumps, for example, are very challenging metabolically. You absorb the shock with the calves though, and both at the same time, so it should be more low-impact than a jog where you land on just one foot. And you can start with a very low box if need be, 6 inches or whatever. Notice they pop up VERY often in mainpage WODs. Rope jumps for that matter could be possible eventually, these are even more low-impact as you only jump a tiny bit off the floor (just enough to pass the rope) and again you use both calves at the same time. This is VERY tiring. And I'm talking single jumps, not the Double Unders you commonly see in WODs. The rope jump is quite effective and I advise you to consider it. Also inexpensive, can be done indoors if there's bad wether, etc.

Yeah, I had thought about box jumps. I have a very strong and sturdy step platforum, with lots of risers, so I can adjust the height from very low to quite high. Thus, I can readily scale this exercise. However, poppping 380 pounds off the floor, even if only 6 inches, is quite stressful. Not so much in terms of impact, which is minimal, but in terms of the big loads that are suddently placed on bones, ligaments, tendons, and joints.

I'll try box jumps and see how it goes. But I wouldn't be surprised if I have to drop 50 to 70 pounds before I can realistically do them without so much concern for injury. Box jumps are a plyometric exercise, and these are broadly considered to be advanced exercises for people who are already pretty fit, due to the high stress they put on the body.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 962494)
As far as adductors/abductors go... these muscles are used in a variety of exercises and movements and don't really need you to work them in isolation. Although for you I find the Slideboard good because at present time I feel you may not be able to do the moves that use those muscles, without actually pefroming an abduction/adduction of the leg.

The first time I tried some max effort sprints (less than 100m) I was shocked at how sure my adductors were. The same thing happened the first time I tried the Bulgarian Split Squats (holding dumbells). My adductors were quite sore the next day which I did not expect. Logic tells me that with both exercises I should have sore hip flexors, glutes, hamstrings... but not adductors since I'm not pulling my leg to the center of my body, right? Wrong! You'll see.

Similary, by abductors you're talking mostly glute Medius right? Once you do things like Walking Lunges you'll realize these get a tremendous workout without actually having todo laying leg raises, heh. The 1-leg Romanian Deadlift has given me some of the bigges glute med. soreness ever. Most single-leg stuff will use these muscles. Like I said, maybe now at 380# you can't do much in the way of 1-leg drills, but judging by your progress and determination, very soon you'll be fit/light enough for a much wider variety of exercises.

You are correct about the one legged exercises and the gluteus medius getting worked out. However, slideboarding works out that muscle in a somewhat different way. Yes, the medius is worked as a stabilizer muscle during part of the motion, but it is also heavily worked by contraction and extension as well, and in such a way that one doesn't find in other MetCon activities outside of skating. It is a unique motion. It also requires a fair amount of balance, agility, and accuracy, especially if one adds weights or skill activities. Also, sliding is just plain fun. I don't know why, but it is more mentally stimulating to me than walking, jogging, stepping, or any of those other aerobic type activities. If you ever get the chance to try a slideboard, do so - they are pretty cool.

Luke Seubert 07-20-2011 05:15 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
Date: July 20, 2011
Name: 2.0 Flat and Hilly Miles
Time: 41:46
Heart Rate: 129 BPM

Comments
As stated last week, this week I will start doing more challenging walks. Today, with the heat and very high humidity even in the early AM, this was a tough walk. I dropped three pounds of sweat. Due to the conditions and the longer distance, I kept the pace and the heart rate down. The hilly part of this walk features two steep hills followed by flat stretches - ideal for intervals.

I'll continue to work this longer walk into my exercise regimen. I like it. Hopefully the time will drop, especially after mid-September when this heat and humidity breaks. By then, I'll be in better shape and able to really push hard for better times.

Arturo Garcia 07-20-2011 08:05 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Seubert (Post 962934)
OK, since you point out that air squats and too many wallballs interfer with SS back squats, what about kettlebells interfering with SS power cleans? How would you recommend I set up my schedule to deal with this? I can do kettlebelling two days before or two days after I do power cleans.

The only way a KB swing will interfere with power cleans is if you do hundreds of them the day prior to your PC session and your low back and hamstrings are crippled entering your PC session.

But it doesn't mess up your mechanics. I want you to understand this: the reason I was warning against a ton of air squats for someone who'll be learning and progressing in the Back Squat, is because it seems these two have different mechanics. Since you're not holding any weight in the air squat you do them differently. This, then, could hurt when placing the bar on your back and going for the back squat.

The KB swing is just done by thrusting your hips forward. It's not like a Power Clean. In a swing you thrust them forward hard. In a PC you try to jump up. You'll see when you do them. I have never heard of anyone claiming that swings will mess your cleans. But I've read several people on the boards advice against a ton of air squats, specially if you're relying on the Back Squat as the foundation of your strength, since it "teaches bad habits" or something to that effect.

You're right that jumping is explosive. But many fat people try to JOG and in my opinion this places much more stress than say, rope-jumping. Don't worry though, you talk about having to lose 50-70 pounds before doing any of this, but like I said, that time will come soon! :)

About the programming, just don't do a metcon that leaves you with severe DOMS the day before your SS session.

If you wanna try useful exercises that can be done laying on the floor in the time being... Can you do Glute Bridges, planks, side planks, and Bird Dogs? Don't think these are silly, I used to do these a lot. Can you do an unweighed walking lunge at your weight? This move is also used in metcons a lot in mainpage WODs but I was hesitant to recommend them to you. You can also try a VERY good exercise called the Step-up. It's as simple as the name implies: just step into a box. This (and all I've mentioned in this parragraph) will be low-impact. Start with a low box and just step on it repeatedly. This is very tiring. If it's too easy and you can dozens of reps per leg, just increase the box height. I figure you can start with this now since you have risers. Could be used in metcons as well. In fact I currently do the barbell version of this as part of my strength training. And I've done everything I mentioned above, all are worthy moves.

Luke Seubert 07-20-2011 06:12 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 963033)
The only way a KB swing will interfere with power cleans is if you do hundreds of them the day prior to your PC session and your low back and hamstrings are crippled entering your PC session.

The KB swing is just done by thrusting your hips forward. It's not like a Power Clean. In a swing you thrust them forward hard. In a PC you try to jump up. You'll see when you do them. I have never heard of anyone claiming that swings will mess your cleans. But I've read several people on the boards advice against a ton of air squats, specially if you're relying on the Back Squat as the foundation of your strength, since it "teaches bad habits" or something to that effect.

OK. I just wanted to be sure, because both of them do activate the posterior chain, albeit in different ways. I don't plan on doing extreme numbers of kettlebell swings. I think shorter sessions and eventually Tabata kettlebells is enough for me for the time being.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 963033)
If you wanna try useful exercises that can be done laying on the floor in the time being... Can you do Glute Bridges, planks, side planks, and Bird Dogs? Don't think these are silly, I used to do these a lot.

Those are all good core exercises. Hmm, not sure if I want to do a group of dedicated core exercises, although I do have a good exercise routine worked out for that sort of thing, which includes some of the exercises you mention.

Would not Wallball, kettlebell swings, and SS do a good job of developing core muscles?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 963033)
Can you do an unweighed walking lunge at your weight? This move is also used in metcons a lot in mainpage WODs but I was hesitant to recommend them to you.

It is a great exercise, but I can only do a few reps at best, and I am concerned about losing control and dropping hard on a knee. This one will have to wait until later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 963033)
You can also try a VERY good exercise called the Step-up. It's as simple as the name implies: just step into a box. This (and all I've mentioned in this parragraph) will be low-impact. Start with a low box and just step on it repeatedly. This is very tiring. If it's too easy and you can dozens of reps per leg, just increase the box height. I figure you can start with this now since you have risers. Could be used in metcons as well. In fact I currently do the barbell version of this as part of my strength training. And I've done everything I mentioned above, all are worthy moves.

Yup, I have done lots of Step-ups in the past. I have a great stepper with risers for this. However, I took it one step further, so to speak, and did Step-overs, where I would step up and keep on going, dropping the free foot on the ground in front of the stepper, and then stepping backwards in a similar motion. I would work one leg for a set number of reps, and then switch to the other leg.


Anyway, let's take a look at the updated version of my workout schedule. Please critique:

Proposed Exercise Regimen
During this workout regimen, I will be sustaining a significant daily caloric deficit, which precludes truly heavy, lengthy, or intense exercise. The purpose of this regimen is to encourage greater fat loss while minimizing muscle loss. While I expect to gain fitness and strength, these are not my primary goals at this time.

Starting Strength routines are 2X per week, not 3X. I will advance the weight at half the rate recommended by Rippetoe, and hold when I reach moderately heavy weights. The aerobic days are more akin to active rest than vigorous aerobic exercise. The High Intensity Metcon days are short workouts, but using heavy weights and/or techniques like Tabata to ramp up efficiency, scaled appropriately to my level of fitness.

Day 1 - Starting Strength Lite - Routine A - Back Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift
Day 2 - Low Impact Aerobic Exercise - 30 minutes or less - walking, sliding, stepping, rebounding
Day 3 - Brief, High Intensity MetCon - Wallball, Kettlebell Swings, Waiter's/Farmer's Walk, Sandbag Carry, etc.
Day 4 - Rest Day
Day 5 - Starting Strength Lite - Routine B - Back Squat, Press, Power Clean
Day 6 - Low Impact Aerobic Exercise - 30 minutes or less - walking, sliding, stepping, rebounding
Day 7 - Brief, High Intensity MetCon - Wallball, Kettlebell Swings, Waiter's/Farmer's Walk, Sandbag Carry, etc.
Day 8 - Rest Day
Repeat sequence...

Luke Seubert 07-21-2011 03:43 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Active At Any Size - A Pamphlet Review
Part of my purpose in writing to this Workout Log is to provide useful information to people who are severely or morbidly obese - information normally not found elsewhere in the CrossFit community. This is so that such people who would like to someday do CrossFit, but who are out of shape, can read along and discover useful knowledge about how to accomplish such a goal. That is the path that I am on, and so I share my knowledge with others.

Thanks to Mara and Arturo, I have begun exercising, mostly by taking walks. Soon though, I will be weightlifting and doing other activities. For someone who is carrying about 150 pounds of extra fat, I get along OK with exercise.

However, some folks have a really hard time with exercises like 2 mile walks or wallball or weightlifting. There are alternatives available to these people. The National Institutes of Health has published a pamphlet in .pdf format entitled, Active at Any Size - pdf (WFS), which you can download to your computer by right-clicking on the link and selecting "Save Link As".

This pamphlet details why very obese people should exercise, and lists a wide variety of different exercises available to such folks. It discusses motivation and how to stick with an exercise program, along with how to track your progress. It provides lots of tips and suggestions to help out. Finally, the pamphlet concludes with information about other useful knowledge resources - other pamphlets, books, websites, videos, and more.

For people who are struggling with a lot of excess fat and who would like to exercise but need some help, Active at Any Size - pdf (WFS), is a great resource. I highly recommend it. For those who don't like .pdf files, the same information is duplicated on the NIH webpage, WIN - Publication - Active at Any Size (WFS).

Arturo Garcia 07-21-2011 07:23 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Seubert (Post 963431)
OK. I just wanted to be sure, because both of them do activate the posterior chain, albeit in different ways. I don't plan on doing extreme numbers of kettlebell swings. I think shorter sessions and eventually Tabata kettlebells is enough for me for the time being.

Sounds awesome. Yes, KB swings work the posterior chain, but this why I said in my last post that I wasn't against the bunch of air squats because they work similar muscles.... it's OK to work similar muscles in the metcons. I was against it because some have said it messes up your mechanics for the barbell back squat, as simple as that.


Quote:

Those are all good core exercises. Hmm, not sure if I want to do a group of dedicated core exercises, although I do have a good exercise routine worked out for that sort of thing, which includes some of the exercises you mention.

Would not Wallball, kettlebell swings, and SS do a good job of developing core muscles?
Yes, once you're doing the major barbell lifts, you probably wont need these. This is why I said these would be great "in the time being". I assume you wont start the barbell lifts until you're a little lighter. But in the mean time, you can do these drills I mentioned, which are low-impact as they get, and they are REALLY effective. Many, many people have "dormant glutes" that don't fire correctly. These drills, specially glute bridges and bird dogs, are great for glute activation and would be nice to make sure you have proper glute activation before starting your squats, deads, and power cleans. I figured you could do these at your current weight so I mentioned them.

Your routine sounds fine to me, if you stick to it and eat enough quality foods there's no way you can fail :)

Luke Seubert 07-22-2011 05:10 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
Date: July 22, 2011
Name: 1.1 Mostly Flat Miles
Time: 19:28
Heart Rate: 144 BPM

Comments
Temperature: 82 F
Humidity: 89%
Heat Index: 98 F

Yeah, it has been really hot and muggy. Today was a middlin' time, despite the conditions, so I did OK. I didn't really push hard though. I'll save that for later in this cycle. Though if this heat wave gets worse, I might move inside for my exercise.

I am getting better though. My heart rate on July 18, 2011 was 143 BPM, and yet I beat that time despite the heat and humidity by 44 seconds.

Luke Seubert 07-22-2011 05:22 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 963581)
Yes, once you're doing the major barbell lifts, you probably wont need these. This is why I said these would be great "in the time being". I assume you wont start the barbell lifts until you're a little lighter. But in the mean time, you can do these drills I mentioned, which are low-impact as they get, and they are REALLY effective. Many, many people have "dormant glutes" that don't fire correctly. These drills, specially glute bridges and bird dogs, are great for glute activation and would be nice to make sure you have proper glute activation before starting your squats, deads, and power cleans. I figured you could do these at your current weight so I mentioned them.

You know, Arturo, you raise a very good point. I was planning on starting that routine I described sooner rather than later. However, I do have a tendency to do too much too soon - you know, excess enthusiasm :-) I think I will dust off that body core routine that I worked out a while back, and substitute that for my SS, for the time being. That, and continue the walking and ramp up the medicine balls and kettlebell swings.

So, the new program looks like this....

Day 1 - Body Core Exercises & Walking, Sliding, Stepping, or Rebounding
Day 2 - Body Core Exercise
Day 3 - Body Core Exercises & Wallball or Kettlebell
Day 4 - Rest
Repeat

Note that before the exercise session I would warm up with some light aerobics and dynamic stretching. The Body Core Exercises can be done on consecutive days - the source for this program is "Stronger Abs and Back", published by Human Kinetics.

What do you think of doing this for 8 weeks, and then going with the previously outlined exercise routine with the Starting Strength lite routines?

(Yes - I know - I can drive people crazy with my endless consideration of options. What can I say? I like to make informed decisions :-)

Arturo Garcia 07-22-2011 06:53 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Luke, I think it's a good idea. At your current weightloss rate, 8 weeks should mean around a 33 pound loss, right? That's a considerable amount.

I was unsure as to just how much you wanted to weigh before starting the routine you've been outlining. I knew we had convinced you to start sooner than you originally planned, but I was unsure as to just WHEN. So lets say you want to start it in 8 weeks: that is precisely why I'm recommending drills such as the ones I mentioned. If you just keep walking during this 8 weeks... that's great but you'll then start SS from a pretty much untrained state. While if, on the other hand, you do these kind of things, you'll start SS with the advantage of already having a strong core, glutes that fire correctly, etc. These drills are no joke if done seriously. I suggested this type of work because, as I said, it's low impact and I figured you could try them even at your current bodyweight. And as you guessed, once you start the routine you've been outlining (which includes SS twice a week) you can ditch them, but they will have done good things for you, much more than you can achieve by just walking. :)

I guess it's all rather clear now in this regard. Just set a target you wish to reach before starting that routine with SS in it. 350 pounds? 330? 300? It's up to you, as I don't know how comfortable you feel doing those lifts at your various weights. Right now you're considering a target measured in time and not your weight (8 weeks). That could work as well, I guess. But in the mean time, you can do more than just walking, which will better prepare you for SS :)

Luke Seubert 07-23-2011 04:26 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Saturday Weekly Body Measurements Update
Date: July 23, 2011

Last Week's Total Body Measurement: 962.5 cm
This Week's Total Body Measurement: 954.5 cm
Beginning Date for Body Measurements - May 14, 2011 - Total Body Measurements: 1009.5
Total Centimeters Lost to Date: 55.0 cm

Comments
Wow! Big losses this week, most of them on the chest, waist, and hips - which is exactly where I need to be losing in order to be losing fat. This is a big reversal from the past weeks. The difference? Going out for a walk for 3 days in a row, with 1 day of rest. I have been doing this for just over a week, and the results showed up almost immediately in my body measurements.

Interestingly, my bodyweight loss rate has gone down, which suggests to me that I am building a bit of muscle as I lose this fat. Although, my body fat composition loss rate is improved, it has not gone up by all that much.

Still, the tape measure is the best of the three metrics I have, and it has improved significantly this week. I am pleased, but also slightly wary. I will want to see if I can improve like this again next week before I confirm it as a solid trend.

On the whole though, after many weeks of discouraging data from the tape measure, this is a very good week indeed, and I am quite happy.

Body Measurements for Last Week and This Week
An explanation about "Total Body Measurements" and how I use body measurements to assess fat loss over time may be found in my previous post, "The Humble Tape Measure: Simple But Oh So Useful" (WFS).

Right Thigh: 68.5 cm, 68.0 cm
Right Calf: 51.5 cm, 51.5 cm
Right Ankle: 28.0 cm, 28.0 cm

Left Thigh: 71.0 cm, 70.5 cm
Left Calf: 52.0 cm, 51.5 cm
Left Ankle: 28.5 cm, 28.5 cm

Right Arm: 39.0 cm, 38.0 cm
Right Forearm: 34.5 cm, 34.0 cm
Right Wrist: 20.0 cm, 20.0 cm

Left Arm: 42.5 cm, 43.5 cm
Left Forearm: 34.5 cm, 34.5 cm
Left Wrist: 20.0 cm, 20.0 cm

Neck: 45.0 cm, 45.0 cm
Chest: 143.5 cm, 142.0 cm
Waist: 158.0 cm, 155.5 cm
Hips: 126.0 cm, 124.0 cm

Luke Seubert 07-23-2011 04:41 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 963951)
Luke, I think it's a good idea. At your current weightloss rate, 8 weeks should mean around a 33 pound loss, right? That's a considerable amount.

Well, if you take a look at my last Wednesday Bodyweight Update, you'll see that my rate of bodyweight loss has dropped off. I have been informally adding calories to my diet, and instead of 4.1 or 4.2 pounds of bodyweight lost per week, I am now down in the high 2's. I won't know for sure what the new weight loss rate is until I gather some more data, but it is down.

Happily, by body measurements reading this week took a very big drop. This exactly coincides with my exercise program. So, even though I am not dropping body weight quite so fast, I am dropping inches pretty fast. This suggests that even walking is building a bit of muscle as I lose more fat, faster. So the exercise is working very well indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 963951)
I was unsure as to just how much you wanted to weigh before starting the routine you've been outlining. I knew we had convinced you to start sooner than you originally planned, but I was unsure as to just WHEN. So lets say you want to start it in 8 weeks: that is precisely why I'm recommending drills such as the ones I mentioned. If you just keep walking during this 8 weeks... that's great but you'll then start SS from a pretty much untrained state. While if, on the other hand, you do these kind of things, you'll start SS with the advantage of already having a strong core, glutes that fire correctly, etc. These drills are no joke if done seriously. I suggested this type of work because, as I said, it's low impact and I figured you could try them even at your current bodyweight. And as you guessed, once you start the routine you've been outlining (which includes SS twice a week) you can ditch them, but they will have done good things for you, much more than you can achieve by just walking. :)

I guess it's all rather clear now in this regard. Just set a target you wish to reach before starting that routine with SS in it. 350 pounds? 330? 300? It's up to you, as I don't know how comfortable you feel doing those lifts at your various weights. Right now you're considering a target measured in time and not your weight (8 weeks). That could work as well, I guess. But in the mean time, you can do more than just walking, which will better prepare you for SS :)

Despite the fact that I like to plan things, I realize that sometimes you just have to wing it - do it on the fly. A great example is my beginning to exercise regularly, which I did not plan, but did more on impulse based upon your's and Mara's urging. I think I will do the same with just when to begin Starting Strength. I will begin wallballing, kettlebelling, farmer's walking, and body core conditioning and get all of that going well - get used to some exercise more strenuous than just walking. And, once I feel right, I'll go ahead with the Starting Strength. Maybe it will be 8 weeks, or maybe it will be 350 pounds. Not sure. Either of those would be a good goal, so I'll keep them in mind, but also listen to what my body is telling me in response to my exercise and diet.

Arturo Garcia 07-23-2011 07:23 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Sounds like a plan Luke. I'm glad you're dropping inches. :)

Luke Seubert 07-23-2011 08:02 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
  • Date: Saturday, July 23, 2011
  • Name: 0.9 Mostly Hilly Miles
  • Time: 17:45
  • Heart Rate: 132 BPM

Comments
  • Temperature: 90 F
  • Humidity: 67%
  • Heat Index: 103 F

This was my first time walking the other loop in my neighborhood by itself - the hilly section. While it is 0.2 miles shorter than the 1.1 mile loop I have been walking, it is harder because of the hills. Tomorrow, I will walk both of them together just as I did at the end of my last 3 day-On cycle. And I will walk them much earlier in the morning, so as to avoid the heat from later in the day.

I took this one relatively easy today, as evidenced by my heart rate. The heat and humidity were pretty bad by mid-morning. I am sure I can improve upon this time.

Luke Seubert 07-23-2011 08:13 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo Garcia (Post 964301)
Sounds like a plan Luke. I'm glad you're dropping inches. :)

Yeah, me too. The rate of loss in body measurements had really dropped low over the past month. Then, this morning, after just over a week of consistent exercise, I get an 8.0 centimeter drop in Total Bodyweight Measurement. The biggest drops I had previously seen were 7.0 cm back in the early weeks of the diet regimen. So today was a pretty big day full of good news.

Anyway, Arturo, I just wanted to publicly thank you for all of your encouragement and advice. I really appreciate all the thought and work you have put into helping me out. Your guidance has been most valuable. Thank you.

Luke

Luke Seubert 07-24-2011 05:39 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
WOD
  • Date: July 24, 2011
  • Name: 1.1 Mostly Flat Miles
  • Time: 19:00
  • Heart Rate: 143 BPM
Conditions
  • Temperature: 82 F
  • Humidity: 86 %
  • Heat Index: 92 F
Comments
This was a solid walk. Close to a PR, but not quite. Still, given the higher heat and humidity of today, I thought I did well. Tomorrow is a rest day, which will be nice. I hope to step up the work load in the next cycle by doing two 2.0 mile walks, not just one. The weather won't be so bad by then, and the walks should go well.

Mara Rozitis 07-24-2011 05:30 PM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Hi Luke! Just wanted to weigh in on your exercise progress and planning. Great job!!!

I think you're doing the right thing by taking things as they come. I suspect you'll know when you're ready to go to the next level. Basically, if you start to get bored and need more challenge, I would add something to your mix. My personal suggestion would be to add something short and intense, whichever type of exercise you choose. Intervals or a very brief metcon, but really go hard. I'm not too sure about the whole air squat/back squat debate, but I do both and I'm really not sure how one learns to back squat without doing air squats first. The air squat is a pretty fundamental movement in life and I think it's important on its own.

I totally understand the difficulty of living in a remote area. I am at least 45 minutes away from my affiliate and 30 minutes away from my globo and sometimes it's really hard to get there. That said, finally stepping through that door was the very best decision I have ever made for my own well being. I had lurked on the Zone and CrossFit forums for a long time before I ever found the courage to actually do something about it. I am thrilled for you that you have the ability to follow the program all on your own. I am not that strong. The people at my affiliate have changed my life for the better in more ways than I can count. I hope that at some point down the road you get to meet some great people who will help you on your journey, whether or not they are at an affiliate.

Keep up the great work!

Luke Seubert 07-25-2011 04:25 AM

Re: PaleoZone vs Morbid Obesity: An Odyssey
 
Monday Weekly Body Fat Composition Update
Date: July 25, 2011

BFC Average 2 Weeks Ago: 41.9% (Approximately 4% understated compared to hydrostatic immersion)
BFC Average 1 Week Ago: 41.5%
Current BFC Average: 41.5%
Beginning Date for BFC - May 4, 2011 - BFC Average Then: 44.6% (Approximately 4% understated compared to hydrostatic immersion)
Total BFC Average Lost to Date: 3.2%

Comments
This is one of those weird weeks for BFC readings from my Omron. I have been steadily losing bodyweight over the past week, at a rate from the high 2's to the low 3's. My last body measurements showed some big losses. I have been exercising and eating a little bit more, which accounts for the lower weight loss rate and the big drop in body measurements. And yet, the Omron says that my body fat composition hasn't really changed. The body measurements indicate that it has, so I don't know how to explain these readings from the Omron, especially as they dropped significantly the previous week. It is all peculiar. If it doesn't start dropping soon, then I'll get concerned. Meanwhile, I pay more attention to body measurements, as they are the more reliable metric.

BFC Readings and Average For The Past Two Weeks
The BFC Average listed below is a simple 7 day moving average. It tends to overstate current BFC slightly as it lags behind the real data, but it smooths out erratic BFC readings and shows the actual BFC rate of change over time. Readers curious to know more about how to effectively use an Omron or any other bioelectrical impedance body fat composition meter should read my previous post, "How to Get Semi-Useful Body Fat Composition Data Out of a Bioelectrical Impedance Analyzer" (WFS).


__Date___________BFC Reading_____BFC Average
Mon, Jul 11, 2011_______41.7%_______41.9%
Tue, Jul 12, 2011_______41.7%_______41.9%
Wed, Jul 13, 2011_______41.7%_______41.8%
Thu, Jul 14, 2011_______41.3%_______41.7%
Fri, Jul 15, 2011_______41.3%_______41.7%
Sat, Jul 16, 2011_______41.7%_______41.6%
Sun, Jul 17, 2011_______41.7%_______41.6%
Mon, Jul 18, 2011_______41.1%_______41.5%
Tue, Jul 19, 2011_______41.3%_______41.4%
Wed, Jul 20, 2011_______41.7%_______41.4%
Thu, Jul 21, 2011_______41.6%_______41.5%
Fri, Jul 22, 2011_______41.4%_______41.5%
Sat, Jul 23, 2011_______41.5%_______41.5%
Sun, Jul 24, 2011_______41.3%_______41.4%
Mon, Jul 25, 2011_______41.5%_______41.5%


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