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-   -   Hydration on the zone (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=10193)

Dave Henry 01-05-2007 01:31 AM

This is my first post so be kind. I searched and didnt find anything directly related.
Ive been doing crossfit for about a year(cert in dec) and haven't really had any issues until now, I have just started getting alot more strict on the zone, and everything is working out well for me, but due to a recent illness I lost alot of weight in a very short period, and i beleive it was mostly water weight.... and it got me thinking how much water should I be drinking?
typically I would say I have about 4L per day. I drink atleast 1L during or immeadiatly after the WOD. I know the general rule that my urine should be clear, but i take a multi-vitamin that makes it bright yellow no matter how much water I have!
age:26, BW:176
thanks in advance
Dave

Paul Symes 01-05-2007 04:21 AM

There have been some big threads on hydration recently:

[url=http://www.crossfit.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=next&topic=23&page=19445]like this one[/url]

If you put the words hydration and tea into the search engine the ancient secrets will be revealed.


Dave Henry 01-05-2007 10:37 AM

I read that already and am still not convinced, but I guess I dont have that much to loose, and people have been drinking tea since time began. I just imeadiatly dismissed it because of caffine, but in reading further it seems interesting.
Is there a textbook answer to how much water to drink while on the zone?

Paul Symes 01-05-2007 11:08 AM

Why should being on the Zone have anything to do with how much water you need to drink?

How about trying to do a search containing the just the words hydration or hydration and performance thus revealing other ancient secrets that don't involve tea.

By the way I think 4 litres is plenty.

Sam Lepore 01-05-2007 12:31 PM

Paul-- Easy on the kid. A little sarcastic and rude it seems to me.

Dave-- nothing textbook. 8-10 glasses a day is a good benchmark.

Paul Symes 01-05-2007 02:29 PM

For God's sake Sam...

Lighten up will you? I was being jovial, for the last time - never again will I attempt to have a sense of humour while Big Sam the internet policeman is around

I did answer his question, what's your problem?


Michael Manseau 01-05-2007 02:32 PM

Dave:
8-10 glasses should be fine. There was something on the web about body weight to fluid intake ratios; if your bored, you could search Google.
:Welcome:

Garrett Smith 01-05-2007 03:01 PM

Dave,
If you lost a lot of weight in a very short time (and you're still alive), most of it was water.

4 liters/day should be fine.

Not all teas have caffeine--the best teas for hydration purposes are herbal teas (aka tisanes or teasans) and have no caffeine.

As for the multivitamin, don't worry about the urine color change (unless it keeps up all day long!).

Hone Watson 01-05-2007 03:51 PM

Sometimes you can be low on sodium which makes it worth adding a pinch of celtic sea salt to your water.

Larry Lindenman 01-06-2007 09:31 AM

Caffeine does not dehydrate (recent studies done), caffeine is an ergogenic aid...one of the better ones: “Caffeine, Body Fluid-Electrolyte Balance, and Exercise Performance,” published in the June 2002 issue of the International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, researcher Lawrence E. Armstrong, a professor of exercise and environmental physiology at the University of Connecticut, found that caffeine is not the dehydrating demon some people believe. In fact, he concluded that caffeine is no more a diuretic than water. Supporting Armstrong’s findings is an American Journal of Physiology August 2002 review of the literature on hydration by Dr. Heinz Valtin that cites a University of Nebraska study, which found that caffeinated beverages may be counted toward the daily fluid total.

Armstrong’s analysis of the scientific literature that was focused on moderate amounts of caffeine (equivalent to one to four cups of coffee a day) indicates:

When consuming a caffeinated beverage, the body retains some of the fluid.
Moderate caffeine consumption causes a mild diuresis very similar to that of water (water, when consumed in large volume, increases urine output).
A person who regularly consumes caffeine has a higher tolerance to the diuretic effect.
There is no evidence that consumption of caffeinated beverages causes a fluid-electrolyte imbalance that is detrimental to health or exercise performance.

Work and family safe link:

[url=http://www.humankinetics.com/products/journals/]http://www.humankinetics.com/products/journals/[/url]

Numerous studies have documented caffeine’s ergogenic effect on athletic performance, particularly in regard to endurance. Studies show that caffeine ingestion prior to exercising extended endurance in moderately strenuous aerobic activity. Other studies researching caffeine consumption on elite distance runners and distance swimmers show increased performance times following caffeine consumption.

Darrell E. White 01-06-2007 12:02 PM

Dave:

Tiny little thing to add. Remember that protein is relatively hard on the kidneys, relative that is to carbs and fat. The only "Zone" aspect to the hydration question would be further encouragement of hydration, along the lines of all of the advice here, as one would do on a super-high, ketogenic protein-based diet.

Try a search for "Dr. G" and tea. Garret has some ideas on particular teas and brewing, etc. If I remember correctly he drinks 50% caffeinated and 50% uncaffeinated tea each day.

Larry, I think that's why there is an upper limit to the allowed caffeine level in international swimming, track, etc. championships. Good reading. Thanks.

Garrett Smith 01-07-2007 08:51 AM

I want to say that I do not feel that caffeine has a diuretic effect--I think some may feel that I imply this.

I do feel that non-caffeinated teas hydrate *more efficiently* than caffeinated teas (caffeinated teas have more tannins as a general rule, tannins are astringent and drying, this could be the reason).

Caffeine is a stimulant, no debate here I hope. Regardless of what the "studies" say, each person's tolerance and potential drawbacks to such is different.

I'd like to add two things regarding the studies on caffeine. One, I would really want to know if there were any obvious conflicts of interest in the funding of Mr. Armstrong's work (ie. Starbucks, to give an extreme example). Second, nearly any stimulant is an ergogenic aid in the proper dose in the proper person--no argument here--that doesn't make it beneficial to health (although it may push up numbers towards "elite fitness").

Larry Lindenman 01-07-2007 09:13 AM

I want to be absolutely clear...I'm only looking for pro caffeine articles. If I were doing research, I'd be funded by the coffee lobby. I may not be right and could probably find studies promoting the positive effects of drinking battery acid on weightlifting performance, if I had an interest in consuming battery acid. Regardless, it's still kind of interesting.

Dave Henry 01-08-2007 02:06 AM

thanks for all the info... I definatly have some more reading to do... I have very little caffeine in my diet right now, only jasmine tea when I goto the local thai food place. (maybe once a week) It'll be interesting to see how the tea thing works out. I like saving caffeine for those times when I need it, like on a long drive. I've never really relied on it for fitness. what about the green tea pills? does this have the same effect? If the green tea helps with hydration why do people take it for weightloss?

Garrett Smith 01-08-2007 03:19 PM

Dave,
If you're doing well with low levels of caffeine, I'd say stick with that.

I personally emphasize (non-caffeinated) herbal teas for hydration--the best thing is you can choose herbs that help with your own particular health situation at the same time! Caffeine works well in the situations you describe, no need to rely on it for anything except when necessary.

Hydration is about two things: having the proper amount of water in the body along with the proper movement of water across the cell membranes. Green tea, in liquid form (not pills), helps the body to absorb the water (see the link I posted in one of those hydration threads about how the gut absorbs water). Green tea pills would not help in that aspect necessarily.

Green tea has a whole host of effects, I'd suggest you get on PubMed or search the internet more for more info.

Chris Forbis 01-08-2007 07:57 PM

My two cents, I feel my hydration has improved significantly since I started having 1 Tbsp of organic, unfiltered, raw apple cider vinegar in 8 oz of water about 4 times a day.

My weekly water consumption has gone down by about 2 gallons, because I feel I'm being hydrated more efficiently.

Mike ODonnell 01-08-2007 08:00 PM

The more protein you add in...the more water you will need as protein dehydrates you. Oh yeah...your kidneys will thank you too.

Frank Menendez 01-08-2007 08:32 PM

Any tea will do or specifically green? I've been drinking ginger tea almost every night and it seems to all go to waste! Waking at night to urinate. Very uncomfortable!

Garrett Smith 01-09-2007 06:02 AM

Frank,
The best way to hydrate to avoid waking at night is to get more than a majority of your fluids down before noon.

Sam Lepore 01-09-2007 08:06 AM

Chris--


How do you know your Hydration has improved with the Raw organic ACV?


Chris Forbis 01-09-2007 09:37 PM

I am thirsty less often, drink less water overall, and urinate less.

Garrett Smith 01-10-2007 04:47 AM

While I don't use the ACV drink like Chris does, I fully believe that it would work just as well as herbal tea in terms of hydration.


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