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Darrell E. White 01-06-2007 12:02 PM


Tiny little thing to add. Remember that protein is relatively hard on the kidneys, relative that is to carbs and fat. The only "Zone" aspect to the hydration question would be further encouragement of hydration, along the lines of all of the advice here, as one would do on a super-high, ketogenic protein-based diet.

Try a search for "Dr. G" and tea. Garret has some ideas on particular teas and brewing, etc. If I remember correctly he drinks 50% caffeinated and 50% uncaffeinated tea each day.

Larry, I think that's why there is an upper limit to the allowed caffeine level in international swimming, track, etc. championships. Good reading. Thanks.

Garrett Smith 01-07-2007 08:51 AM

I want to say that I do not feel that caffeine has a diuretic effect--I think some may feel that I imply this.

I do feel that non-caffeinated teas hydrate *more efficiently* than caffeinated teas (caffeinated teas have more tannins as a general rule, tannins are astringent and drying, this could be the reason).

Caffeine is a stimulant, no debate here I hope. Regardless of what the "studies" say, each person's tolerance and potential drawbacks to such is different.

I'd like to add two things regarding the studies on caffeine. One, I would really want to know if there were any obvious conflicts of interest in the funding of Mr. Armstrong's work (ie. Starbucks, to give an extreme example). Second, nearly any stimulant is an ergogenic aid in the proper dose in the proper person--no argument here--that doesn't make it beneficial to health (although it may push up numbers towards "elite fitness").

Larry Lindenman 01-07-2007 09:13 AM

I want to be absolutely clear...I'm only looking for pro caffeine articles. If I were doing research, I'd be funded by the coffee lobby. I may not be right and could probably find studies promoting the positive effects of drinking battery acid on weightlifting performance, if I had an interest in consuming battery acid. Regardless, it's still kind of interesting.

Dave Henry 01-08-2007 02:06 AM

thanks for all the info... I definatly have some more reading to do... I have very little caffeine in my diet right now, only jasmine tea when I goto the local thai food place. (maybe once a week) It'll be interesting to see how the tea thing works out. I like saving caffeine for those times when I need it, like on a long drive. I've never really relied on it for fitness. what about the green tea pills? does this have the same effect? If the green tea helps with hydration why do people take it for weightloss?

Garrett Smith 01-08-2007 03:19 PM

If you're doing well with low levels of caffeine, I'd say stick with that.

I personally emphasize (non-caffeinated) herbal teas for hydration--the best thing is you can choose herbs that help with your own particular health situation at the same time! Caffeine works well in the situations you describe, no need to rely on it for anything except when necessary.

Hydration is about two things: having the proper amount of water in the body along with the proper movement of water across the cell membranes. Green tea, in liquid form (not pills), helps the body to absorb the water (see the link I posted in one of those hydration threads about how the gut absorbs water). Green tea pills would not help in that aspect necessarily.

Green tea has a whole host of effects, I'd suggest you get on PubMed or search the internet more for more info.

Chris Forbis 01-08-2007 07:57 PM

My two cents, I feel my hydration has improved significantly since I started having 1 Tbsp of organic, unfiltered, raw apple cider vinegar in 8 oz of water about 4 times a day.

My weekly water consumption has gone down by about 2 gallons, because I feel I'm being hydrated more efficiently.

Mike ODonnell 01-08-2007 08:00 PM

The more protein you add in...the more water you will need as protein dehydrates you. Oh yeah...your kidneys will thank you too.

Frank Menendez 01-08-2007 08:32 PM

Any tea will do or specifically green? I've been drinking ginger tea almost every night and it seems to all go to waste! Waking at night to urinate. Very uncomfortable!

Garrett Smith 01-09-2007 06:02 AM

The best way to hydrate to avoid waking at night is to get more than a majority of your fluids down before noon.

Sam Lepore 01-09-2007 08:06 AM


How do you know your Hydration has improved with the Raw organic ACV?

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