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John de la Garza 08-24-2004 04:04 PM

anyone have opionions about the shoulder horn for protecting the ext rotar cuff?

anyone use one? if so, would it be easy to lean forward and change the peaks? so it starts off easy and gets harder as opposed to starting off at full weight and getting easier?

Larry Lindenman 08-24-2004 06:16 PM

John, you are the gaget guy aren't you! :wink: Isolation is generally not good and really doesn't mesh with the Crossfit concept as i understand it. You would be much better served with handstand pushups. Also, check out Dan John's article in . .Tabata workouts.

Brian Hand 08-25-2004 06:38 AM

John, the shoulder horn is okay but not necessary for rotator cuff rehab / "prehab". I tried one on once and didn't like the feeling of it resting on my upper back. You can change the resistance curve of these types of exercises by using free weights (easy at the top) and rubber bands (easy on the bottom).

Larry, this thing is for corrective / remedial work, to prevent injury if the rotator cuff muscles are lagging, or restore rotator cuff strength and range of motion after an injury. In this context I think isolation work might have a place, Robb and I discussed this on here a while back.

John de la Garza 08-25-2004 08:23 AM

I am a gadget guy, but I also am a minimalist. That may sound odd, but then again, I'm not your average Joe.

I avoid isolation moves in general.

Doing handstand pushups would be similar to dumbell press or military presses right?

Do these moves strengthen the rotar cuffs? I was told be a orthapedic surgeon that they can eventually develop embalances and should do some specific rotar cuff moves.

I just don't want to have any shoulder problems down the road.

Aptdwler 08-25-2004 09:01 AM

I have on and like it. A past girlfriend gave it to me... You can do the same movement by putting you elbow on the edge of a table, just takes a bit longer as you only do one at a time.

They are suppose to strengthen it.

Brian Hand 08-25-2004 10:46 AM

John, this is a pretty involved topic, but I basically agree with your doctor. Many people do wind up with relatively weak rotators, EVENTUALLY - it doesn't seem to be a beginner problem.

A little prehab for intermediate / advanced people makes sense to me - a little goes a long way.

One other thing, please keep in mind that the external rotators are not the whole rotator cuff (supraspinitus is mostly an abductor, and subscapularis is an internal rotator) AND the rotator cuff muscles are not the only "little-muscles" that can get weak / disfunctional and cause shoulder problems.

Ross Hunt 08-25-2004 10:58 AM

What are 'real' (i.e., non-isolation) exercises that will strengthen weak rotators?

Brian Hand 08-25-2004 11:26 AM

Ross, to some extent, anything that involves the shoulders will involve the rotator cuff as stabilizers, and they will develop without a doubt from pushups, chins, etc. etc. Balancing pushing work with pulling work will go a long way. If I had to pick a best compound exercise, I'd say rows with elbows high, pulled to the chest.

The problem is that with compund exercises not everything necessarily grows in concert. Over time the prime movers may be too strong for the rotator cuff's ability to stabilize. This can / will eventually lead to injury.

I have little use for "puny" movements in general but I promise you will not turn into a pencil necked geek over night if you do a little single joint work where it makes sense :-)

Larry Lindenman 08-25-2004 11:54 AM

Brian, I used to see these in bodybuilding magazines in the 80s early 90s (yea, I read them), usually with some puffy steroid intoxicated bodybuilder with huge shoulders, kind of turned me off, I didn't know it was used for re-hab. I think shoulder work with DB's for pre-hab has similar, if not better effect: Cuban presses, internal / external shoulder rotations, KB, band work, rings, scarecrows, and med ball work all are excellent rotator cuff pre-hab exercises.

Brian Hand 08-25-2004 12:41 PM

Larry, I like your exercise list, especially the cubans (which, for the squeamish, are not an isolation move!). What are scarecrows?

Also, do you doing anything especially for the cuff on the rings? I use the rings to stretch my pecs, nothing else I have done comes close, and of course stretching the pecs eases up on the cuff.

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