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-   -   14.4 Tips and strategies (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=86578)

Mark E. Wallace 03-20-2014 06:31 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipp Lendner (Post 1224893)
I'm one of those. Up to now, I was OK with every workout they did. Now that's different. Who has a rower, a Pull-up bar, a Wall-Ball target and a pair of rings close enough to each other to make a valid video without being in a box?

Hoping to find a box to drop in to do that workout. Very disappointed about this one. Movements are doable, combination for logistical issues is not.

Gotta say that I agree with all of that.

- Mark

John Holcombe 03-20-2014 06:32 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I'm guessing concept2 sales are going to see a big rise after the rowing showed up in the open. Also, they had to do something new. Everyone was starting to complain about the lack of variety in open workouts

Jayme Gruber 03-20-2014 06:35 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clint Harris (Post 1224922)
Like airbike/airdyne, it will also vary by rower vendor. I was in Dick's a few weeks ago. They had a rower which wasn't chain driven. It had some sort of cloth band - was horrible - and only displayed calories. Its calorie count was way different than that of a c2. Don't remember if higher or lower, just remember thinking the thing was horrible and way off.

Castro specifically said it had to be a Concept2 rower. I'd imagine they're all calibrated the same.

Beth Martino 03-20-2014 06:39 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayme Gruber (Post 1224925)
Castro specifically said it had to be a Concept2 rower. I'd imagine they're all calibrated the same.

The workout standards simply say that "An indoor rower with a monitor that measures calories" is required. So not necessarily a Concept2. I'm not sure you can ever really trust what Castro says during the WOD announcements. http://crossfit-games.edgesuite.net/...enCNDdsw34.pdf (wfs)

Jayme Gruber 03-20-2014 06:41 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beth Martino (Post 1224927)
The workout standards simply say that "An indoor rower with a monitor that measures calories" is required. So not necessarily a Concept2. I'm not sure you can ever really trust what Castro says during the WOD announcements. http://crossfit-games.edgesuite.net/...enCNDdsw34.pdf (wfs)

Dang, I swear I heard him say Concept2 specifically on the live announcement.

Jerry Roselli 03-20-2014 06:42 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
are single toes-to-bar ok?... meaning a jump, swing back, kick up, jump down, repeat... I know it's a slow progression but that's all I got ;)

Glenn Plomchok 03-20-2014 06:44 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Roselli (Post 1224929)
are single toes-to-bar ok?... meaning a jump, swing back, kick up, jump down, repeat... I know it's a slow progression but that's all I got ;)

Yes....

Jerry Roselli 03-20-2014 06:46 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Plomchok (Post 1224930)
Yes....

great, thanks Glenn...

Glenn, no XL Old Man Strength TShirts left!?!?!?

Glenn Plomchok 03-20-2014 06:53 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
UGH...no. Really sorry...I did my initial production run and went heavier on the M and L and I am out of XL. I will have them in a couple weeks. If you don't mind, please shoot me an e-mail at plomchok1022@gmail.com so I can let you know when they come in. I will also announce it on Facebook page.

Thank you.

Glenn

Andy Luten 03-20-2014 07:03 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Wow. According to the infographic released by HQ 98% of Open wods are completed at an affiliate.

Jerry Roselli 03-20-2014 07:21 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Plomchok (Post 1224930)
Yes....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Plomchok (Post 1224933)
UGH...no. Really sorry...I did my initial production run and went heavier on the M and L and I am out of XL. I will have them in a couple weeks. If you don't mind, please shoot me an e-mail at plomchok1022@gmail.com so I can let you know when they come in. I will also announce it on Facebook page.

Thank you.

Glenn

Sent and I liked you FB page, thanks

Jason A Smith 03-20-2014 07:25 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipp Lendner (Post 1224893)
I'm one of those. Up to now, I was OK with every workout they did. Now that's different. Who has a rower, a Pull-up bar, a Wall-Ball target and a pair of rings close enough to each other to make a valid video without being in a box?

Hoping to find a box to drop in to do that workout. Very disappointed about this one. Movements are doable, combination for logistical issues is not.

Me. True story, I actually do. I am a five year Crossfitter, I live in a climate that has no access to running for months on end, I bought my rower pretty soon after I started. My rings and pull up bar are beside each other.

Regardless I am going to do this with my "team" at the local affiliate. I would actually have to do some fancy moves for my WB target.

This should be fun for video taping. I sure as heck hope they do not ask for this one to Regional folks what a pain.

Snir Golan 03-20-2014 09:54 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I will join all those that are dissapointed by this workout. Its not the actual movements I have a problem with, its the idea of needing a rower. I am currently in Israel and most boxes here are fairly small and equipment is VERY expensive so there are only a couple boxes that has rowers and even those only have 1 or 2. That means that a bunch of people now have to try and do this at other boxes and even then, you have to go 1 or 2 at a time.

And don't even get me started with trying to video it. I can see already how much of a nightmare its going to be if more than one person goes and you have 3-5 judges running around with a camera trying to video it.

Beth Martino 03-21-2014 06:41 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayme Gruber (Post 1224928)
Dang, I swear I heard him say Concept2 specifically on the live announcement.

Oh, Dave definitely said Concept2 during the live announcement; my point was more that we can't trust that what he says at the live announcement is ever the final word :p Always read the Workout page, watch the standards video, check out the PDF carefully!

Lance Neumeyer 03-21-2014 06:56 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Personally, I love this workout, but I go to a box. I certainly understand and can empathize with those who don't have access to a rower or local box - I'd be pretty PO'd as well.

For me, this is going to be a race to the 180 reps - which is the end of the cleans. Very close to getting a MU, but haven't gotten it yet. Hopefully tomorrow. Looking at the leaderboard, about 60% of the Men's division is posting scores of 180 or higher. In the Master's division, just under 50% of the men have 180+.

Not nearly as many women are getting 180+; looks like this is the first workout where the men will likely have a higher score than the women.

Mike Pratt 03-21-2014 07:44 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I did 14.4 this morning. Most fun I've had in an open wod yet. I like chippers because you generally dont have to just sit in the same 1 or 2 movements and suffer the whole time.

TTb were pretty rough, and they made the muscle ups at the end even more difficult. I had no hips left.

Tighe Crovetti 03-21-2014 07:45 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Five months into CF, my first Open, I have to say...this is the WOD I've been waiting for. I'm 6' with pretty long arms for my height, so rowing is one of my stronger areas (my best 500m is 1:29). I also have managed to acquire a pretty strong aptitude for T2B, I think it's just good proportioning or something, plus a unique kip my coach taught me (and uses himself). I'm decent on WB (is anyone really "good" at them??), but not sure how the first two will affect me going into those. The cleans, they don't scare me really, they'll be one at a time, no doubt, just hoping to be able to pick the bar back up each time at a steady pace.

The big piece is the MU's. I technically 'have' a MU, but I just tend to be hit or miss, and after 180 reps of other stuff, I'm prepared to be missing.... But, I think if I can get one, I'll distant myself from other beginner/intermediate types, and hopefully with a good tiebreaker. It's weird, it's like I really expect myself to get 180, and will throw a party if I get 181!

Chris Westfield 03-21-2014 07:52 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I wonder if I can "kobayashi maru" my rower? Kidding.

Kirk out.

Snir Golan 03-21-2014 07:53 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Did about 7 minutes of the workout today (don't ask, technical issues) and i gotta say, i really do like this workout. i am doing it again on Sunday with the goal of getting at least 1 MU.

Beth Martino 03-21-2014 08:00 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance Neumeyer (Post 1225001)
Not nearly as many women are getting 180+; looks like this is the first workout where the men will likely have a higher score than the women.

I am withholding judgement until I see Sam Briggs' score.

Richard Colon 03-21-2014 08:05 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance Neumeyer (Post 1225001)
Not nearly as many women are getting 180+; looks like this is the first workout where the men will likely have a higher score than the women.

For sure. Briggs and a couple of others might skew the charts a bit and jump way out but the standards are equal yet the capability of male/vs female is not.

I'm a somewhat normal dude (I'm strong and 205lbs) with $hit work capacity and overall ability compared to any high level FEMALE Crossfitter but I will outrow them - every day.

You will see lots of men hit the 200+ range. They just push through that rower a lot faster. Men will have something like a full minute or more available for them to do the same exact work as a female because of that row. I mean Khalipa in a comfortable but decent pace Row is probably pulling faster than any females PR. Its just how it is.

Nicholas Wheeler 03-21-2014 08:07 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Gymnastics grips - yay or nay for the T2B?

Jenni Hartman 03-21-2014 08:35 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
My strategy is steady on the row (I'm short, shooting to finish in under 4:00), pace the T2B and wall balls, do singles on the cleans, and hopefully get a few muscle-ups at the end.

Also, setting up your equipment in a way that will assist you when you get tired - don't make it to spread apart to waste time on transitions, and blocks/etc so you don't have to jump to get up to the pull-up bar or rings.

Jeff Simon 03-21-2014 08:46 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I'm looking forward to this one.


It'll be a bit of chaos as the box I go to only has two rowers, but we'll make it work.


I'm thinking strict muscle-ups because I still dont understand this kipping thing:smiley_ev

Vic McQuaide 03-21-2014 08:50 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Its really a muscle up workout.. don't go to fast on the rower, get thru the T2B rest on the wall balls, cleans are harder than you would think.. then MU with as much time you have left.

Tim Squires 03-21-2014 08:58 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beth Martino (Post 1225019)
I am withholding judgement until I see Sam Briggs' score.

Briggs with a 249.

Michael Cook 03-21-2014 10:21 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I think Frohning will be able to get past the rower and get 260+.

Thomas Cofer 03-21-2014 06:24 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Did anybody else find the ttb to be horrible lol. got 186 tonight and feel good so if time permits Ill do it again

William Garrett 03-21-2014 06:41 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I just plan on going at the row on a moderate 2000m pace which is 1:48ish/500m for me and save it for everything else for the chipping. You can kill yourself off on the row and make the rest of this a miserable experience.

I plan on sets of 10 with 5 seconds rest on the T2B and Wallballs, and just keep moving. 10 cleans per minute if time allows (based on my Grace time + fatigued). Goal is not to break up into single with huge pauses between.

Hope to make it to the MU's at the 12:30ish mark, stare at the rings some, and muster up 1-2 MU's. Havent done many since my shoulder tweak in November.

Chuck Golden 03-21-2014 07:28 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Is there any different strategy for rowing for calories instead of distance? Damper setting?

I read one deal that said you stick to whatever pace allows you to get full power on every pull. It said that maintaining power per stroke was more important than maintaining stroke rate. :shrug:

Zac Metz 03-21-2014 07:28 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance Neumeyer (Post 1225001)
Personally, I love this workout, but I go to a box. I certainly understand and can empathize with those who don't have access to a rower or local box - I'd be pretty PO'd as well.

For me, this is going to be a race to the 180 reps - which is the end of the cleans. Very close to getting a MU, but haven't gotten it yet. Hopefully tomorrow. Looking at the leaderboard, about 60% of the Men's division is posting scores of 180 or higher. In the Master's division, just under 50% of the men have 180+.

Not nearly as many women are getting 180+; looks like this is the first workout where the men will likely have a higher score than the women.

This is the second post I've seen stating something along the lines of "Wow the women are performing at the mens level". I think the other was that "the womens weights need to be bumped up". I am curious if I am missing something.

I know that the scores are slight skewed in the womens favor (excluding 14.4 currently), but they are not nearly far enough apart to warrant something like a change in overall weight schemes etc. For reference here are the top scores:

14.1
Men - 461
Women - 472

14.2
Men - 396
Women - 404

14.3
Men - 182
Women - 192

14.4 (Currently)
Men - 277
Women - 249

So excluding 14.4 because it is not closed out, we are looking at around 10 reps more done in favor of the women. And I'm going to venture a guess that the posted top scores by Briggs and Froning have a good chance at standing as the top scores which would be a big swing towards the guys. I don't see how the womens weights should be changed, especially in something like 14.3 with those heavy deadlifts. The womens HIGHEST weight (225#) is the halfway point of the mens weight scheme, and considering the score was only 10 reps higher it seems like it is pretty well balanced. If the womens weights were say 20# higher every round that would absolutely destroy the scores. That weight may not be much early on but what would happen a few rounds in? That would likely hold for all the other workouts as well. The scores aren't massively different but adding even 10# to something like 14.2 (65#) would increase the weight by 15%, which is quite a big portion of the overall weight. That would obviously create extra fatigue and likely bring the scores down substantially.

Anyway I'm just running on, just wanted to see if I missed something with all that.

To get back on topic, I definitely agree that this is really a muscle up workout with a 180 rep "buy-in" and then we see who can grind out 20 and sprint on the rower after they finish it.

Jon Campbell 03-21-2014 08:22 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Did it tonight, got 166. TTB sucked.

Jenni Hartman 03-21-2014 08:34 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Golden (Post 1225142)
Is there any different strategy for rowing for calories instead of distance? Damper setting?

I read one deal that said you stick to whatever pace allows you to get full power on every pull. It said that maintaining power per stroke was more important than maintaining stroke rate. :shrug:

Rudy from Outlaw recommended all his athletes go 6-10 on damper setting, depending on your rowing skill, and to go at a 18-22 stroke/minute rate. Not sure how that will play out for his athletes, but they tend to be pretty damn strong so there's that to consider.

My experience - I went too hard on the row and was miserable the rest of the workout tonight. It took me almost 4 minutes to do the T2B. When I redo, I will go a little easier on the row pace and hopefully that will translate to easier T2B. The wall balls and cleans were ok for me, but I only had 25 seconds to get a muscle-up (and failed).

Kenny Markwardt 03-21-2014 08:51 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenni Hartman (Post 1225151)
Rudy from Outlaw recommended all his athletes go 6-10 on damper setting, depending on your rowing skill, and to go at a 18-22 stroke/minute rate. Not sure how that will play out for his athletes, but they tend to be pretty damn strong so there's that to consider.

My experience - I went too hard on the row and was miserable the rest of the workout tonight. It took me almost 4 minutes to do the T2B. When I redo, I will go a little easier on the row pace and hopefully that will translate to easier T2B. The wall balls and cleans were ok for me, but I only had 25 seconds to get a muscle-up (and failed).

I did 14.4 tonight and found most, if not all of Rudy's video to be spot on. I think he is a little aggressive on damper setting, but like you said, his athletes tend to be very strong.

Rowing is definitely a strength for me, and I usually row at a 3-4ish damper setting. I tried at a 6 tonight and it worked really well. I got off the rower after about 2:27 and felt great. I believe my strokes per minute were around 25ish, and I got 1 calorie per pull.

One big thing that I think helped me with the rower/t2b sequence is to pull with a light grip, then return the handle with your palms on the outside of the paddle. I knew I wanted to minimize grip fatigue, and this definitely accomplished that.

5 toes to bar at a time was a great way to go. It felt super easy at the beginning, but the final two sets were tough. I finished these in a little more than 3 minutes.

Wall balls were 4 sets of ten with 10 seconds rest. I could feel my shoulders and triceps starting to get that "pump", so I backed off a little. These took me roughly 2:30 i think.

Power cleans were a pain in the ***. The first one felt like 165, and I don't think it got much easier. These took about 3 minutes and I did them in sets of 5. They weren't touch and go, but they were basically sequential.

I got to the muscle ups with about 3 minutes, rested til roughly 2:30. Because with all of the work leading up, I didn't want to fail the first one, and I had no idea how the first one would go. But then I went 3-3-2-2-1 for a total of 11. I think I paced too much on the muscle ups, but they are a pretty solid strength for me, and I knew that going to failure would be fatal.

All in all, I'm pretty happy. I think I could get a few more muscle ups, but I'm not going to Regionals, so I don't think I'll repeat.

Good luck!

Michael Cook 03-21-2014 10:54 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I think with any chipper type workout, if you go too hard on any one piece, you'll wreck yourself for the rest of the workout. I did it tonight and got 189, which I am hoping will be a good score for my age division.

At 5-4 and 155 I am not built for rowing. I didn't realize it till I started, but I set the display setting weird, so it didn't display the 500m pace, so I just went by feel, keeping my stroke rate around 18-22 and getting about 1 calorie for every other pull. Finished the row at 3:45.

I've worked on t2b and these are a strength for me. Done in 5 sets, 11,11,11,9,8.

Not so good on the wb, stuck with my plan of 5 sets of 8.

The cleans were the hardest part. But if you just focus on good technique, and make sure you drop a little bit instead of trying to muscle clean it, they aren't too bad. Dropped everyone, 5 sets of 6.

Muscle ups were hard at the end. My abs were killing, I was winded. I got a few doubles, then failed a couple singles as the time on the clock and my energy ran out.

I think you need to tailor your strategy to your strengths and weaknesses.

Jeremy Lockhart 03-21-2014 11:16 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Sometimes if I'm super winded I'd rather do a hang clean. Standards video didn't really mention anything about one motion. Do you think a deadlift + hang clean would be acceptable?

Chuck Golden 03-22-2014 07:49 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Attempting 14.4 today, strategy is simple:keep the row easy so that I'm somewhat fresh for T2B which I'm pretty terrible at. Probably stick to small sets, keeping time off the bar as short as possible. Then once I get done and move to wall balls, it's time to mash on the gas. I won't get a muscle up so getting through the end of cleans as quickly as possible is the goal. On wall balls I'm gonna try for sets of 10 with quick breaks. One the cleans, my best movement in all of CF, I'll do one set unbroken then switch to singles. Maybe that first set will one be 5 reps but that's my strategy for Grace and it works out pretty well.

Wish everyone else the best of luck today

Ryan Gonzalez 03-22-2014 11:03 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Lockhart (Post 1225164)
Sometimes if I'm super winded I'd rather do a hang clean. Standards video didn't really mention anything about one motion. Do you think a deadlift + hang clean would be acceptable?

I can't see why not. standards just say the rep needs to start on the ground and end on the shoulders with knees and hips locked out.

Larry Larned 03-22-2014 11:10 AM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
I did it this morning. Definitely do sets of no more than 5 T2B. I tried going 10, 10, then 5s the rest of the way. I was shot out after the third set of 5. Sets of 5 with short rests would have been much better! The cleans felt light for me. I did all singles and got 13 pretty quickly. Hoping to get at least 5 MUs on Monday.

Leon O'Regan 03-22-2014 12:01 PM

Re: 14.4 Tips and strategies
 
Ok,
Do the bar for cleans, and wall for wall balls always have to be in the video?
I've workout out a way to do this workout but wall balls will need to be done in a separate room for ceiling height so they'd be outta shot for the first 7-8 mins?


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