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-   -   Best SS + CF hybrid? (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=26683)

Erik Eliassen 01-26-2008 09:47 AM

Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
Hey folks. Sorry if I'm annoying anyone by asking this, as I've seen the question of how to blend SS into your CF routine pop up here a fair few times.

[B]Short story:[/B]
I want to gain mass and strength, and I am wondering how to best do it when you're already very active.

[B]Long story:[/B]
I've been doing CF + zone for only a couple of months, and already the results are amazing. My numbers on the bw exercises has just exploded. Pre-CF I used to be able to do only 6-10 pull-ups. Last "Lynne" I did 23 on the first set, and 15 rounds last "Pullup Ladder".
Last Cindy was 18,5 rounds, Michael sub 19 min etc. But then theres my CFT.. Only 500 lbs. And there are still many exercises I struggle to do as rx'ed.

I'm 6'0" and I weigh in at only 148 lbs, so it may not be very surprising that strength is lacking. As it feels as my biggest weakness, I want to work to improve it. Last "Fran" I spent 15,07 min on, and out of those 15 min its probably 10 min resting from how much rx'ed thrusters are killing me. I was still really sore from 400m lunges though. I still cant do any of the bench press workouts as rx'ed, and there are heaps of other barbell exercises I have to scale down as well.

Obviously I should gain some mass as I'm a skinny bastard :shrug:

Now I have ordered SS from Amazon, but I live in Europe so it will probably take a while. I'm looking to interprate it into my workout schedule, which is CrossFit 3 days + 1 rest as posted on the website + martial arts:

[I][U]Monday:[/U][/I]
Boxing + Krav Maga
[I][U]Tuesday:[/U][/I]
Boxing + MMA
[I][U]Wednesday:[/U][/I]
Krav Maga
[I][U]Thursday:[/U][/I]
Boxing
[I][U]Fri, Sat, Sun:[/U][/I]
Weekend, time for some rest, aye?

This has worked fine for as long as I've been doing CrossFit. It's obviously a lot, but I eat clean and I eat enough so its all good. I try to get 8 hours sleep every night. :highfive:

Several of my sparring partners weigh around 180 lbs, and I want to work my way up there as well, because they just hit a lot harder than me, and are really advantagous when it comes to grappling. I dont compete in any of the sports yet, so I'm not too concerned about weight classes, but obviously I dont want all the weight in my legs when I compete in boxing.

So how do I fit SS into this? I'm considering to skip boxing on mondays as its optional, but I dont want to miss out on any of the other classes.
I see that some people drop CF entirely for the period they're on the SS program, while others do something like CF, SS, CF, Rest or CF, CF, SS, Rest. Personally I have no idea what would be best for me. I'm pretty keen to gain a lot of mass and strength asap, but I dont want to lose too much of the fitness I have worked up. Now as I am as active as I am outside CF it might not be neccessary to do as many MetCons as some other people I guess..

Any thoughts people?

Tim Donahey 01-26-2008 10:33 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
Had I not gotten the hernia, this could have worked for me. [url]http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=25531[/url]

You'll need a moderately large work capacity and CF days would need to be hand picked/tailored to not conflict with the SS workouts. For example, Helen and Cindy don't clash with SS like Linda or Lynne do. Alternatively you could do Tabatas or HIIT.

David Stout 01-26-2008 10:45 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
With all that you've got on your plate with the martial arts training PLUS the full time CF schedule of 3 on 1 off, it'll be tough to do. Moreover the results vs. doing nothing but SS would be impacted.

Having said that, I believe it is possible to work it in (just about anything is with proper planning) if it's something you want to pursue. Just keep in mind that again the returns from the training won't be as described in the book you'll be reading because of what all you're doing.

I would approach it by laying out what is your first priority and then charting in the remainder of the training which would be considered supplemental. One approach might place (temporarily mind you) priority on Starting Strength training as described in the book for 3 full days per week. Then put in what's next important to you, and so on. Everything that follows Starting Strength in this example is purely supplemental and should not be programmed so as to effect the results (negatively) of that training. Rippetoe has stated in another forum:

[QUOTE]It depends on where you perceive that your training should be focused. If you're not strong enough to effectively do the WODs, it makes sense to focus on SS for a while to get better at force production and then go back to CF. If your strength is good now and your primary interest is in CF GPP conditioning, strength work occurs often enough in the WOD that you can just do it like that. Assuming you mean that you need to concentrate on strength for a while, I'd start with straight SS programming, and then add one metcon workout after 3-4 weeks and see how your strength work responds. Probably 2 metcon/3 SS workouts/week is all you can tolerate, and just follow that until strength progress plateaus, at which time you go back to full-time CF. But this will be hard to do without enough calories going in, and strict Zone makes this hard. Good luck. [/QUOTE]

I hope this helps.

I'm in week 2 of a 6 week experiment where I am following 3 full standard Starting Strength days and 2 CF days per week. This has been really tough, and super hard to find the energy to complete each day. In addition, I can only seem to up the loads minimally each day. I am considering tapering back the metcons to see better results and take it easier on my body already. It really is that tough. Even with following the Zone Diet very strictly, resting well, etc. Which I am doing.

Once I feel better I may reintroduce the metcons in weeks 5 & 6. Then again, I'm no CrossFit monster by anymeans.

You may want to check out the great SS posts by Forum Member, Tim Donahey. He's been really helpful to me in terms of approaching this.

Hope this helps,

David Stout
CF Chattanooga

David Stout 01-26-2008 10:47 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
Of course he's typing a response as I type mine. :rofl:

Awesome Tim. Hope you're doing well bro and already on the road to recovery. Man this is tough going for sure.

David
CF Chattanooga

Erik Eliassen 01-26-2008 11:09 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it! I had already read the thread you linked Tim, and I find it really helpful. Maybe it would be enough with the standard SS program + 0-1 MetCons per week then.. The martial arts classes can be pretty exhausting, and I might be underestimating how much the SS would actually get to me.

Perhaps something like

Monday:
Krav Maga (active rest day)

Tuesday:
SS A + Boxing + MMA

Wednesday:
Krav Maga (active rest day)

Thursday:
Boxing + MetCon/skill practice

Friday:
SS B

Saturday:
Rest day

Sunday:
SS A


Any inputs?

Tim Donahey 01-26-2008 11:09 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
I'm glad David took the time to spell out what I didn't Great advice, Dave.

Tim Donahey 01-26-2008 11:22 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
I guess "active rest" depends on how demanding your KM classes are. We do a lot of combatives and I go all out on them, and anytime you're going all out, that can't be considered active rest, because it's active activity. If you're able to keep your percieved exersion low enough at KM, then that might be okay... but what you have layed out there is fairly ambitious. I used yoga as my active rest, between SS (AM) and KM (PM), but still kept two strict rest days, each following an SS day, which was when my CNS needed the most recovery.

The more metcon/fight based activities you have programmed, the more your results from SS will be affected negatively. I would drop either a boxing or crossfit day and try to fit in another rest day. Or drop the boxing (or your smallest priority activity) altogether, to return to after you complete a cycle of SS.

Erik Eliassen 01-26-2008 11:23 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
About my goals, I guess we could say my number one goal at the time is to gain mass and strength. I want to make sure I dont reduce my times on the MetCons though. Not by too much anyway. I havent even done CF long enough to have done a WOD worse than last time it came up.

I am also a bit interested in training skills like the muscle-up, which I have been doing every now and then. HSPU and stuff like that is fun too, but if I want to do HSPU's I might want to do that instead of shoulder press one day I guess? So much stuff to think about..

Tim Donahey 01-26-2008 11:33 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
[QUOTE=Erik Eliassen;247929]About my goals, I guess we could say my number one goal at the time is to gain mass and strength. I want to make sure I dont reduce my times on the MetCons though. Not by too much anyway. I havent even done CF long enough to have done a WOD worse than last time it came up.

I am also a bit interested in training skills like the muscle-up, which I have been doing every now and then. HSPU and stuff like that is fun too, but if I want to do HSPU's I might want to do that instead of shoulder press one day I guess? So much stuff to think about..[/QUOTE]

Honestly it doesn't sound like you've accrued enough conditioning to handle "all of it". I recommend you do 3 days of SS, 2 days of 1 fight class each, and 2 days of rest, until your strength base is at a competitive level. This is generally 2xBW Deadlift, 1.5xBW Squat, BW Bench Press, BW Power Clean, and .75 BW Press. And eat like you're getting paid by the calorie.

Erik Eliassen 01-26-2008 11:35 AM

Re: Best SS + CF hybrid?
 
You might be right about that Tim. Dropping boxing is not an option I'm afraid :( In the setup I put up there there are only two boxing trainings though. The KM classes can be demanding, but it hasnt been a problem going to them on CF rest days for the past two months. I only had a full rest day when the CF rest days fell on a friday, saturday or sunday. Did you guys find your energy levels really different while on SS compared to CF?

How would doing SS and a MetCon on the same day (in order to get a full rest day the day after) work out? SS AM, MetCon PM.


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