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Bill Gibson
07-11-2011, 10:01 PM
I have been CFing since july 2010. I am a 5'10'' male around 195# last time I checked at (i would guess) between 10-15% body fat. I started learning butter fly pull ups around january/february, and have always mixed in strict, chest to bar, L and butterfly pull ups into my workouts. I never had any shoulder problems with high rep butterfly pulls before (100's regional WOD, filthy 50 etc. etc). About 6 weeks ago, I sliced my right palm open cutting some water melon and took about 3 weeks off from all work outs. Getting back into it around the 4th week, I started working in regular pull ups, dips, and muscle up progressions again, just to get my hand back into the swing of things. Then, two days ago, I decided to attempt the 5/31/11 WOD of 50 PU-10 burpees-40 PU-20 burpees-30 PU-30 burpees-20 PU-40 burpees-10 PU-50 burpees, doing butterfly pull ups. This was the first time in about 4-5 weeks that I had attempted high rep butterfly pulls and started to notice after the first set of 50 that I was getting a little pain in my left shoulder. I got to the set of 30 pull ups, but the set of 30 burpees is what really did me in, and I stopped. I didn't want to fight through this type of pain. Pressing my body up and down from the ground gave me kind of a searing pain. At first I was really worried that I had gotten a SLAP tear, as I had not done high rep butterfly pull ups for a good month and my body was not adapted for it yet. But I have no range of motion problems with left shoulder, as in there is no searing pain or loss of strength when I move my left hand above my head. I can scratch my back fine with a little dull pain. Today, I decided to test out my shoulder again and did some strict pull ups, chest to bar, HSPU, and L-pull ups. I stopped again after about 20 min when my shoulder started to throb. My diet is pretty good (about 80% paleo) and I take plenty of fish oil. Should I be worried? As of writing this, I have a dull pain in my left shoulder that isn't searing or anything. I am a little reluctant to cease all sorts of upper body activity, mostly because I like working out, but I guess that is the best option now? Any advice would be appreciated!

Michael Bailey
07-12-2011, 05:08 AM
Having had a RC tear, I would say you might have strained it. I had significant loss of strength in my shoulder when I tore mine, although I tore it pretty good. Rest it for at least a couple weeks. Ice the crap out of it....train around it. Good luck. Remember surgery is no fun...so rest.....

Brent Sallee
07-12-2011, 06:06 AM
Where on your shoulder do you feel the pain? On the front? Back? Outside? Inside? It could be a ton of things - some easy to fix, some not, but you definitely gotta give a bit more info on the location first :)

Bill Gibson
07-12-2011, 11:09 AM
As far as I can tell, there is a little twang in the front right portion of my shoulder, and it is inside the shoulder. I have had no trouble sleeping at night as well.

Steven Low
07-12-2011, 08:04 PM
General post form... ignore the ones (or elaborate more) if you have already answered



If you want a real diagnosis, see an orthopedic doc.

If you want a guess by myself, we can do that..

1. Google a pic and mark where it hurts.

2. What exercises hurt? Which shoulder articulations hurt? wfs
http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html

3. What type of pain is it? Burning? Ache? Tingling? Sharp?

4. Acute or chronic? What date was onset?

5. Any previous injury history?

6. How's your posture?

7. What is your current workout routine for that bodypart? Do you play any sports?

8. Have you been training through pain? If so, how long?

9. Check the tissue quality of the surrounding muscles. Which ones are tight? Which ones are tender? Is there any swelling?

10. What have you been doing for recovery purposes?

11. Any other information I should be aware of or that comes to mind that may help?

Bill Gibson
07-12-2011, 11:57 PM
1. Google a pic and mark where it hurts.

With the picture attached, there is a little pain/discomfort right about at the supraspinatus area in my left shoulder

2. What exercises hurt? Which shoulder articulations hurt? wfs
http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html

As far as I can tell, none of those movements really hurt. There is a little bit of discomfort, but I just tried those movements without any weight so take it for what it is

3. What type of pain is it? Burning? Ache? Tingling? Sharp?

The pain has become kind of an ache now. When I was doing high rep burpees, it was a sharp pain, but now I could classify it as closer to an ache

4. Acute or chronic? What date was onset?

The injury is acute. The date of the onset was 7/10/11 around 8 p.m. EST doing high rep burpees and butterfly pull ups

5. Any previous injury history?

No previous shoulder injury history, although I have had shin splints/compartment syndrome as a regular runner

6. How's your posture?

I have been spending most of my days the past 3 weeks sitting or lying down, looking at a computer, so I would rate it as below average/poor

7. What is your current workout routine for that bodypart? Do you play any sports?

Workouts for my shoulders include HSPU, military press, push press, push jerk, strict pull ups, butterfly pull ups, chest-to-bar pull ups, L-pull ups, bench press, deadlift, squat, dips, ring dips, muscle up progressions

8. Have you been training through pain? If so, how long?

I wouldn't say I have been training through the pain, more like I have been doing couple reps of push ups, pull ups, and HSPU until I start to experience pain. Since 7/10/11 I have done upper body pulling and pushing until I felt discomfort, but never "through" the discomfort I believe

9. Check the tissue quality of the surrounding muscles. Which ones are tight? Which ones are tender? Is there any swelling?

To my eyes I don't seem to notice any swelling or tightness and nothing seems too tender

10. What have you been doing for recovery purposes?

Since 7/10/11 I have been taking between 14 grams and 22 grams of fish oil per day, doing 1-3 reps of push ups, HSPU, pull up and a muscle up progression from my knees

11. Any other information I should be aware of or that comes to mind that may help?

The date of the WOD was the first time I had done high rep butterfly pull ups and burpees in about 5 or 6 weeks because I had sliced my right hand open cutting some water melon and subsequently took off


I feel like I am getting better by the day, but I could be wrong. I feel like the high doses of fish oil is relieving some of the pain. As SLAP tears are a common injury among CFer's, I am being pretty cautious about this.

Bill Gibson
07-13-2011, 12:04 AM
oops, wrong picture, that is the back of the shoulder. here is a picture of the front of the shoulder. The pain seems to be stemming from the bursa/coracoacromial ligament/coracoid process area.

Steven Low
07-13-2011, 08:08 AM
Hmm, based on when it occurred and what happened it sounds like it's possibly a rotator cuff strain (thinking maybe supraspinatus or infraspinatus) but it could also be some bursitis or impingement (maybe two or all of them).

Might not be a bad idea to hit up a physical therapist so you can get a more concrete diagnosis.

There are specific tests to check some specific things but if you don't know your anatomy you might not be able to execute them correctly yourself (plus I don't recommend usually trust self diagnosis from the web tbh which is what I am doing here)

wfs
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000515/3079.html

Bill Gibson
07-13-2011, 08:56 PM
thanks for all the info Steven. I really appreciate it. My shoulder is feeling better still. I decided to try it out with some military presses and more pull ups today and it felt fine during while lifting/pulling. There is a very dull ache now (afterwards) but I suspect that if I stay away from kipping pull ups and burpees for a while, I will be ok. The diagnostic you sent is very helpful. I am currently a student and have limited medical insurance. I believe it would be very costly for me to go to an ortho, get the MRI, etc. etc. for what may seem a relatively minor thing. Hopefully I can forget about this soon!

Gravel Brown
07-13-2011, 10:58 PM
I dont want to scare you mate but that type of pain sounds very similar to the pain i had.. and im now 4 weeks post SLAP op with 4 anchors.

Remember, just because you still have good strength in the gym and ROM is fine does not mean something more sinister isnt going on. I could still do snatches, military press, pullups, deadlifts etc etc etc after my injury. It never hurt when i was in the gym.. just a dull ache afterwards. And i never had any problems sleeping.

I did mine doing shoulder press and bench. I have my own opinions on kipping, personally i think its a rediculous movement, but thats just me. Ive lost count of how many shoulder problems ive read about from people kipping.. but anyhow.

Get it checked out asap mate, at least then youll know exactly what is wrong. The money youll spend to get an answer is well worth it.

All the best. :)

Aaron Gainer
07-13-2011, 11:09 PM
Work on your mobility/flexibility. Do stuff that doesn't hurt or cause you pain.

Bill Gibson
07-14-2011, 06:40 PM
Wow, thanks for the heads up Gravel. If this continues, maybe I'll have to beg my parents to send me to an ortho. I really hope it's nothing serious! I was doing great up until I sliced my right palm open....:ranting2::ranting2:

Steven Low
07-14-2011, 07:39 PM
Meh, it's nice to share stories but everyone is different in the way they manifest pain, what is actually wrong (if anything at all), etc. etc. so taking someone's experience is generally a bad idea unless you have been medically diagnosed with the same condition.

Then you may relate your experience but again everyone responds a bit differently to therapy, surgery, or whatever else. So.... it's meh.

Bill Gibson
07-14-2011, 08:39 PM
Generally speaking, how much would money would I be spending to see an ortho for one visit? MRI? Surgery? Rehab? I realize these are subjective questions, but a pall bark estimate would be appreciated. I'm gonna stay way from anything that agitates my shoulder for awhile in the mean time.

Steven Low
07-14-2011, 09:35 PM
Depends on your insurance.

Usually it's a copay... maybe anywhere from $0-50. Usually around $10-25

Gravel Brown
07-16-2011, 04:37 AM
Wow, thanks for the heads up Gravel. If this continues, maybe I'll have to beg my parents to send me to an ortho. I really hope it's nothing serious! I was doing great up until I sliced my right palm open....:ranting2::ranting2:

Yeah as Steven said, it could be any one of many things, just because my pain etc was similar dont think the worst for yours, hopefully your issue doesnt turn out as negative as mine.

The main thing is not to let full ROM and maintaining of strength in the gym fool you. I automatically thought that mine couldnt be torn as i had both of these still... wasnt the case.

All the best mate. :)

Bill Gibson
08-03-2011, 02:27 PM
Thought I would update my situation. I went to my family physician and she said take NSAID's, take a week off, don't do anything that causes pain/discomfort, and revisit her if the pain/ache persists. Since the last time I updated, I have over head squatted my previous 1RM max for 5 (140#), clean & jerk a new PR of 205#, been able to press and push press with little to no discomfort, been able to kick myself up into a handstand on the rings (a first), done half range of motion ring HSPU (another first), gotten stronger muscle up negatives on rings (still no strict or kipping muscle up), and set a PR for strict pull ups at 16. I have also played golf and basketball, and done a little throwing (of a basketball) with the arm of the affected shoulder. I don't know if I would classify the main shoulder as having pain, but rather having more of an ache. What aggravates my shoulder the most is swinging a golf club (I am left handed) and throwing. I am glad I have been able to progress in my strength, but I have stayed away from Crossfit WOD's because of fear of aggravating my shoulder (mostly burpees and pull ups) and I am missing that endorphin rush from finishing a WOD. If this ache persists for another one or two weeks, then I'll go try and get an MRI and see what's up. I have never worked through excruciating pain. Sometimes while doing upper body movements, there a will be a dull ache. My fear is that I am experiencing the same things that Gravel Brown had felt before he found out he had a SLAP tear. Honestly though, I just want the ache to go away and as fast as possible!

Bill Gibson
08-03-2011, 05:11 PM
I also thought I would add that I decided to go on a 30 day strict paleo challenge and I am now on day 10. I decided to do the challenge in hopes that it would alleviate my shoulder issues and help me lean out a little.

Bill Gibson
08-03-2011, 07:12 PM
also, I don't know how importance this is, but when I take high enough doses of fish oil (around 10 grams), The pain starts to intensify a little. Idk what that means, but I thought I would throw that out there.

Colin McNulty
08-04-2011, 03:14 AM
also, I don't know how importance this is, but when I take high enough doses of fish oil (around 10 grams), The pain starts to intensify a little. Idk what that means, but I thought I would throw that out there.

Is that 10 grams of total fish oil, or 10 grams of EPA and DHA (the good stuff) combined?

Bill Gibson
08-04-2011, 01:01 PM
10 grams total of fish oil Colin. The brand I am using now, "nature's bounty" does not list the DHA total on the label.

Steven Low
08-04-2011, 03:33 PM
also, I don't know how importance this is, but when I take high enough doses of fish oil (around 10 grams), The pain starts to intensify a little. Idk what that means, but I thought I would throw that out there.

That's odd... the pain intensified hours after you took it or what?

Bill Gibson
08-04-2011, 09:56 PM
not hours...more like a matter of between 10-30 min. This happens only when I take anything around or over 10 grams. I had bought into the idea (mostly because of Dr. Sears' lecture in the CF journal) that high doses of fish oil is what I needed after the injury happened. I have lowered my dose to between 1-3 grams a day and some times none at all. I can characterize the pain as almost spasm like after i take the fish oil, and then it usually goes away after an hour or so. The pain flared up after (idiotically) throwing basketball (many times) across a basketball court. Today it felt less aggravated. For those paying attention, I'll try to keep you updated. I intend to see an orthopedist soon.

In the meantime I have tried some of these tests shown in these videos with my brother, specifically O'brien's and the "empty can" test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beVd-cX_TX8 (WFS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Rl0_KE3OA&feature=related (WFS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMPZi2_Jy9o (WFS)

Empty Can and O'brien's test gives me a little bit of pain. However I have tried some of the Kuhn's tests with my brother and whatever pain (if any) that is felt is negligible.

I have to continued to lift, and my press strength continues to go up and there is no pain for press, although push press is a little uncomfortable. I have started doing some of the labrum rehab exercises listed in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfTDzTZTHc&feature=related (WFS)

those exercises seem to be helping a good bit. Like I said before...I don't care if what I have to do...I just want the pain to go away and be able to hit WOD's again like I was the past 9 months (July 2010-Mayish 2011) before I sliced my palm open. I really want to stay active and not rot on my couch because of my shoulder (or for anything, really).

Gravel Brown
08-05-2011, 09:53 AM
How does it feel with pushing exercises mate, ie pushups and benchpress?

I found with my SLAP that these 2 exercises in particular caused me most grief. Most other exercises were fine, even snatches, then id get the dull ache once i cooled down.

My pain seemed to be mainly at the point where the front of my deltoid meets the very top of my pectoral muscle, so the front of the shoulder / top of the chest.

:(

Steven Low
08-05-2011, 05:48 PM
Yeah, that fish oil response is really weird. Seems kinda like a vagal response or something.

Still think it's a good idea to get it checked by an orthopedic doc or physical therapist..... shouldn't have went to family physician that was pretty much a waste of time.