How big is the black box?

Stanley Kunnathu · 01-23-2007, 12:29 PM

CF inputs movement protocols into the black box and evaluates performance on the other side.

Does CF do the same with nutrition or is that being picked up by the PM guys?

I may have answered my own question but those "in the know" might be able to elaborate.

Thanks

Larry Lindenman · 01-24-2007, 06:06 AM

Stanley, to a point. If I remember, the Glassman's came to the Zone diet by using the black box method. They then picked up on a very small part of Sears Zone diet...the Athlete's Zone (increased fat blocks). I don't know if they gleaned this from Mastering the Zone or in private discussions with Dr. Sears, but it is the nutrition plan they black boxed and that has seen the best results, with the most people, over time. Robb Wolf took the paleo direction, I believe the Glassman's still put their athletes on the Athlete's Zone. Really there is not a heck of a lot of variance between the two programs macronutrient wise. I think there is some variation on how people respond to food, but you need to start somewhere as a base line and the Zone progressing to the Athletes Zone, is a great place to start. After you have been compliant for MONTHS then I would alter one variable at a time to individualize.

Keith Wittenstein · 01-24-2007, 08:28 AM

I think the answer to your question is YES, Coach black boxed nutrition. Larry stated it very well. Here is a direct quote from Eugene Allen's Certification notes, "I cannot begin to do the Zone justice here, so it’s fortunate there is a book all about the Zone Diet you must go buy now and read. Suffice it to say that the empirical data are in. It works. Input into the black box has delivered favorable output again and again in terms of weight loss, body fat loss, performance and health risk reduction. If this is not enough information to convince you to get into the Zone you need to go to HQ and visit with Nicole, or write to her. Either way you need to get into the Zone."

From my own memory of listening to Coach here is what I remember. Start with lean meats and fish, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch, no sugar. That's enough to get you healthy and stay healthy. If you want to chase performance, start measuring your food and follow the Zone. After you've leaned out to 5% for men and 10% for women, start adding fat 2x, 3x, 4x, 5 until you get to the sweet spot, i.e., you start performing like Annie or Greg.

Stanley Kunnathu · 01-24-2007, 02:56 PM

Thanks guys,

I figured as much. I just wasn't sure if its an ongoing experiment like the WOD.

Is there any reason to think that upping the fat is the only (or best) way to enhance performance/recovery through diet? Said another way, when do we say that all tweaks have been exhausted and Zone plus multiplying fat blocks is the way to go.

Can the same be said for movement? (New post, different forum?)

I always hesitate to use conclusive language when describing health.

Keith Wittenstein · 01-24-2007, 07:58 PM

Coach has said the performance levels are asymptotic. He's had lots of years of coaching the Gregs, Annies and Nicholes of this world and has calculated where the upper limits of human performance are. That way he can see when someone is performing at a top level and someone has further to go.

I'm sure there might be another way to optimize performance but this is the CrossFit/Zone way. If we find another way, I'm sure we'll try it.

Larry Lindenman · 01-25-2007, 06:47 AM

I think you continue to see changes in CF. The WODs today are different then they were 3 years ago. You could see Coach Rippetoe has made a real impact on CF programming (CF Total and weekly 1 - 5 rep 5 - 10 set workouts). Coach B. too with Olympic lifting. The framework is there, it's a matter of refinement in programming exercise and nutrition.

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01-23-2007, 12:29 PM	#1
Stanley Kunnathu Member Profile: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Calgary Alberta Posts: 313	CF inputs movement protocols into the black box and evaluates performance on the other side. Does CF do the same with nutrition or is that being picked up by the PM guys? I may have answered my own question but those "in the know" might be able to elaborate. Thanks

01-24-2007, 06:06 AM	#2
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	Stanley, to a point. If I remember, the Glassman's came to the Zone diet by using the black box method. They then picked up on a very small part of Sears Zone diet...the Athlete's Zone (increased fat blocks). I don't know if they gleaned this from Mastering the Zone or in private discussions with Dr. Sears, but it is the nutrition plan they black boxed and that has seen the best results, with the most people, over time. Robb Wolf took the paleo direction, I believe the Glassman's still put their athletes on the Athlete's Zone. Really there is not a heck of a lot of variance between the two programs macronutrient wise. I think there is some variation on how people respond to food, but you need to start somewhere as a base line and the Zone progressing to the Athletes Zone, is a great place to start. After you have been compliant for MONTHS then I would alter one variable at a time to individualize.

01-24-2007, 08:28 AM	#3
Keith Wittenstein Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New York New York Posts: 941	I think the answer to your question is YES, Coach black boxed nutrition. Larry stated it very well. Here is a direct quote from Eugene Allen's Certification notes, "I cannot begin to do the Zone justice here, so it’s fortunate there is a book all about the Zone Diet you must go buy now and read. Suffice it to say that the empirical data are in. It works. Input into the black box has delivered favorable output again and again in terms of weight loss, body fat loss, performance and health risk reduction. If this is not enough information to convince you to get into the Zone you need to go to HQ and visit with Nicole, or write to her. Either way you need to get into the Zone." From my own memory of listening to Coach here is what I remember. Start with lean meats and fish, vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch, no sugar. That's enough to get you healthy and stay healthy. If you want to chase performance, start measuring your food and follow the Zone. After you've leaned out to 5% for men and 10% for women, start adding fat 2x, 3x, 4x, 5 until you get to the sweet spot, i.e., you start performing like Annie or Greg.

01-24-2007, 02:56 PM	#4
Stanley Kunnathu Member Profile: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Calgary Alberta Posts: 313	Thanks guys, I figured as much. I just wasn't sure if its an ongoing experiment like the WOD. Is there any reason to think that upping the fat is the only (or best) way to enhance performance/recovery through diet? Said another way, when do we say that all tweaks have been exhausted and Zone plus multiplying fat blocks is the way to go. Can the same be said for movement? (New post, different forum?) I always hesitate to use conclusive language when describing health.

01-24-2007, 07:58 PM	#5
Keith Wittenstein Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New York New York Posts: 941	Coach has said the performance levels are asymptotic. He's had lots of years of coaching the Gregs, Annies and Nicholes of this world and has calculated where the upper limits of human performance are. That way he can see when someone is performing at a top level and someone has further to go. I'm sure there might be another way to optimize performance but this is the CrossFit/Zone way. If we find another way, I'm sure we'll try it.

01-25-2007, 06:47 AM	#6
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	I think you continue to see changes in CF. The WODs today are different then they were 3 years ago. You could see Coach Rippetoe has made a real impact on CF programming (CF Total and weekly 1 - 5 rep 5 - 10 set workouts). Coach B. too with Olympic lifting. The framework is there, it's a matter of refinement in programming exercise and nutrition.