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Old 02-17-2015, 09:47 AM   #11
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

And in 2014 games teams also.

I find overhead squat much more attractive than DL, squat or regular bench. Id like to see strict OHP but that would be hard to judge I imagine, so Im fine with oly lifts at the games and some variations of it.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:50 PM   #12
Jeremy Schultz
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
And in 2014 games teams also.

I find overhead squat much more attractive than DL, squat or regular bench. Id like to see strict OHP but that would be hard to judge I imagine, so Im fine with oly lifts at the games and some variations of it.
I think many CF'ers would agree you about rather seeing overhead squats than back squats, but I can't say I agree.

Testing variations/parts of the oly lifts are fine, but those things are as much about practice and good/expensive coaching than they are about pure strength. A back squat is much more a strength movement than a technique movement that the OHS is.

Also, the Games announcers are always lauding Castro about how he and his team are always coming with great new ways to challenge the Games athletes. OHS events have been done multiple times at the Regionals and Games. Would be hard to say yet another OHS-based event is "new and innovative". But a Bench Press-based event has never been done.
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:41 PM   #13
Bryan Hood
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

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Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
I think this is a good idea once you figure out how to make the set up fair so someone short like me would still have to actually squat and not just do a partial.
Too easy. Adjust the pins for the athlete prior to WOD start. We have 2 R4 racks we use for our powerlifting class. http://www.roguefitness.com/rogue-r-...lA8aAhGZ8P8HAQ (wfs)
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Old 02-18-2015, 12:38 AM   #14
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Schultz View Post
I think many CF'ers would agree you about rather seeing overhead squats than back squats, but I can't say I agree.

Testing variations/parts of the oly lifts are fine, but those things are as much about practice and good/expensive coaching than they are about pure strength. A back squat is much more a strength movement than a technique movement that the OHS is.
Its the same for PL. There are strange variantions of lifts. Like low back back squat, very wide stance, making a squat look almost like a good morning, very very wide bench presses, so ROM is only a few inches, not to mention arched backs. How would you say one is stronger than the other if the first person needs to move the bar only 10 inches while the other have to work hard to move 20 inches (talking about bench press arched back very very wide grip)

For OHP its very hard to move away from the traditional form.

And a DL. I just cant see it work for squat and bench, for deadlift would be fine, standard one, not sumo. But Id give the athletes a bit more time to recovery, at least 3-5 minutes so ATP is replenished and a true max can be noted. I hated the C&J ladder in 2013 where they had something like 2 minutes to complete the lift, that is not long enough.
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:07 AM   #15
Jeremy Schultz
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Its the same for PL. There are strange variantions of lifts. Like low back back squat, very wide stance, making a squat look almost like a good morning, very very wide bench presses, so ROM is only a few inches, not to mention arched backs. How would you say one is stronger than the other if the first person needs to move the bar only 10 inches while the other have to work hard to move 20 inches (talking about bench press arched back very very wide grip)
All of those issues with PL'ers cheating could easily be restricted by CF HQ imposing some movement standards - which they already do on almost all of the Games events.

Again, like I mentioned earlier, the CF Games bear little or no resemblance to an Olympic Weightlifting event, so why would we assume that the CF Games would become exactly like a sanctioned PL'ing event, just because they implemented a few powerlifting movements?
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:37 AM   #16
Jason Fischer
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

I think I would like to see an "x amount of time to reach a max" back squat or deadlift. They would be fun to watch just because it's always entertaining to see the maximum amount of weight moved.

Of course there are going to be seriously cringe worthy moments (like we saw during the team event last year at the Games), which is unfortunate. I'd still like to see it happen though.
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Old 02-18-2015, 12:15 PM   #17
Anthony Giurato
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

How about this? Give the competitors 1 hour total to find 3 maxes:
Ground to waist (Deadlift)
Shoulders to overhead (Jerk)
Ground to overhead in one movement (Snatch)

Those 3 movements are very easy to judge since all you have to do is watch the bar location. Each lift could be counted as its own 100 point event. It might even work well to do this on the first day before the long event. You'd get some interesting strength and endurance numbers on day 1.
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:16 PM   #18
Drew Cloutier
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Schultz View Post
I dunno - maybe this is blasphemous to ask, but why do they not program more powerlifting events at the Regions and Games?

Crossfit athletes are supposed to be all-around athletes, but yet, I don't think Castro has ever made anything like a Back Squat Ladder, and I am positive that there has never been any kind of Bench Press Ladder. Why not?

Granted, there was an event involving Deadlifts at the Games a few years back - I can't remember if it was a ladder or what year it was - but every weight-based event since has been either a weightlifting discipline or a derivative of a WL discipline - like the Overhead Squat ladder.

Supposedly, the reasoning that events like the swims for the last four years' Games and cycling in the '12 Games (among other events) were to test CF athletes in ways that they don't train for. And everyone knows that "bro" exercises are not things that CF'ers train for. So, therefore, it would seem to me that something like a Bench Press Ladder would be perfect. So why not?

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to go to the local Globo in Carson City and recruit a bunch of meatheads to spot the CF athletes, so I can't see how cost would be a factor.

And it certainly wouldn't be any less "TV view-able" than the multiple rowing events in the last couple of Games.

So, why not?
I TOTALLY agree with this, I actually don't watch particular workouts during the games and regionals because they are boring as eff! (swimming, rowing, beach work out, long runs...)

They should take a cue from strongman and have head to head rep challenges (2 competitors lifting same weight for reps) OR set weight increments (ex: 225, 250, 275, 300, 325) where all the athletes do one weight then move on, to see who gets the highest (no passing weights) they could still do a straight up 1RM as well.

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Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
I would probably say boredom, judging and safety.

Would you want just one judge giving the squat an OK? What about spots for safety?

Whereas with the Oly lifts, the judging may be soft, but at the very least you have to get the bar overhead for a somewhat definitive finish.

A properly spotted max bench is hard for spectators to see. Also are they trying to avoid some of the circus that some powerlifiting events have become?
Like has been said I don't see how those are valid points, many other movements get only 1 judge saying okay, and many other movements are hard to see accurately by the audience. As far as spotters how many volunteers do the games get...i'm sure they have no trouble getting a few more. ref the circus powerlifting...that's the multiply world, completely different than RAW powerlifting which is what this would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
I think this is a good idea once you figure out how to make the set up fair so someone short like me would still have to actually squat and not just do a partial.
Your ROM is your ROM just like buddy next to you has a 75" wingspan that helps him during rowing events...this is just like all the other events some favour X body type while others favour Y body type, nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
Its the same for PL. There are strange variantions of lifts. Like low back back squat, very wide stance, making a squat look almost like a good morning, very very wide bench presses, so ROM is only a few inches, not to mention arched backs. How would you say one is stronger than the other if the first person needs to move the bar only 10 inches while the other have to work hard to move 20 inches (talking about bench press arched back very very wide grip)

For OHP its very hard to move away from the traditional form.

And a DL. I just cant see it work for squat and bench, for deadlift would be fine, standard one, not sumo. But Id give the athletes a bit more time to recovery, at least 3-5 minutes so ATP is replenished and a true max can be noted. I hated the C&J ladder in 2013 where they had something like 2 minutes to complete the lift, that is not long enough.
Just like powerlifting, crossfit could come up with their own movement standards, boom solved.
PL Bench standard =
- butt, shoulders/upper back have to remain in contact at all times.
- Head must remain in contact with pad at all times.
- Feet must be flat on floor
- no suicide/reverse grip, no thumbless grip
- max grip width is 81cm apart (32in)
- Bar must touch X spot of chest/adbomen
- bar touch chest and pause, only press up on command.

I also agree that if you wanted to put a time constraint it would have to be something realistic not just 60-120secs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Schultz View Post
All of those issues with PL'ers cheating could easily be restricted by CF HQ imposing some movement standards - which they already do on almost all of the Games events.

Again, like I mentioned earlier, the CF Games bear little or no resemblance to an Olympic Weightlifting event, so why would we assume that the CF Games would become exactly like a sanctioned PL'ing event, just because they implemented a few powerlifting movements?
My sentiments exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Fischer View Post
I think I would like to see an "x amount of time to reach a max" back squat or deadlift. They would be fun to watch just because it's always entertaining to see the maximum amount of weight moved.

Of course there are going to be seriously cringe worthy moments (like we saw during the team event last year at the Games), which is unfortunate. I'd still like to see it happen though.
See my above comment.

As far as comparing to powerlifters, I don't get that, crossfit is crossfit, do they worry about how they compare to gymnasts? or weightlifters? or rowers?

Besides we know not to expect elite World Record levels that specialists would achieve, thats not a knock on anyone, just admitting that getting WR level deadlift/squat etc while also getting sub 5-6 min mile, and all kinds of other attributes is unrealistic.

I'm also one of those people who'd rather see a Front Squat or Back Squat or DL than any kind of OHS event
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:01 PM   #19
Richard A. Lopez
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

I think crossfit is trying to do unique movements to its own competitions. They are athletes trying to be the best, so thats my guess as in why they pick certain movements.
As far as the bench, that'd be cool, but maybe a 225 for reps or something.
Back squat? I wouldnt see that happening because its an easy movement to excel in. Thats why they do the front or ohs. .. thats just what i think.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:43 PM   #20
Drew Cloutier
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Re: Why No Powerlifting at the Games?

I see your point, but at the same time have to point out that really other than a couple novel movements crossfit doesn't have their own unique movements.

They've borrowed from weightlifting, powerlifting, gymnastics, etc...

The "unique" movements might not be done in competition by anyone else, but they are certainly done by athletes from the sport that they (the movements) come from in training.

how is back squat any easier to excel at than deadlift? yet we've seen deadlift in competitions. I'm not a WR holder (i've still got quite a ways to go) or anything but going from games page athletes numbers no one really "excels" at BS. 400-500lbs squat at 175-215 is not exactly excelling, don't get me wrong its actually good, but its not excelling/great, AND from youtube videos i've seen from some games athletes...their PRs/games page numbers are padded a bit sometimes, none of the lifts mentioned are not legit tests of strength or things that really wouldn't make sense being tested.
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