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Old 05-21-2014, 06:38 AM   #21
Mario Beltran
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Paul Coomans View Post
Funny how you seldom hear the top competitors that are there year in year out competing in the toughest regions complain about the judging.

Yes there is human error. If you are good enough you will survive a few unjust no reps. It's part of the game.
They might not complain openly, but they sometimes are affected and might complain with the officials.
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:29 PM   #22
Andrew Bell
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

I don't think most people who posted here read the article. It's not about how tough the region is/isn't, it was about being treated unfairly for not being of a Latin American descent.

It's always great to hear your judge call you a gringo and tell you there's no room for you before you even start a wod.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:45 PM   #23
Adam Manery
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

I think that most of you here seem to be missing (what I think..) the point of the article here is. He isn't trying to have a pity party, and I don't believe that the article shows how he has "sour grapes". When someone in the comment section said something along the lines of, "so you lost because of the judges?" and he went out of way to reply that that was not the case, but rather he lost because there were better athletes than him.

He is using specific examples from his experience to try to relate to CrossFit as a whole. It is more about becoming more professional in the "sport", than complaining about personally having ****ty judges. He clearly loves and has a passion for CrossFit, and he just is writing about what he believes is standing in the way from it going to the next level.

Just my two cents.
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:09 PM   #24
Jason A Smith
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

I read the article and he is pretty much wrong right off the start. Lots of people who compete, pay to be at a competition, even when there is prize money on the line and the spectators pay as well. I competed in such a sport, and it is an Olympic sport as well.

Plus he never said he was called out as a gringo at Regionals but beforehand.

There are no "Pro" Crossfitters and I don't believe they have ever laid claim to being a professional sport. Everyone trains pretty much on their own dime (unless they get lucky and have a sponsor) for the opportunity to take home one of three cash prizes at the Games.

The purpose of the Crossfit Games as far as I know is to find the world's fittest, Castro et al make up the rules and you play along. It seems to me that this season people think that instead of going and actually winning the events that their favourite athletes should just waltz on in.

In the early 90's I was a huge Michael Jordan fan and every year the Detroit Pistons would squash all over Mike (even though he was the best). This is sports and why you play the games.
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:48 PM   #25
Adam Manery
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Jason A Smith View Post
I read the article and he is pretty much wrong right off the start. Lots of people who compete, pay to be at a competition, even when there is prize money on the line and the spectators pay as well. I competed in such a sport, and it is an Olympic sport as well.

Plus he never said he was called out as a gringo at Regionals but beforehand.

There are no "Pro" Crossfitters and I don't believe they have ever laid claim to being a professional sport. Everyone trains pretty much on their own dime (unless they get lucky and have a sponsor) for the opportunity to take home one of three cash prizes at the Games.

The purpose of the Crossfit Games as far as I know is to find the world's fittest, Castro et al make up the rules and you play along. It seems to me that this season people think that instead of going and actually winning the events that their favourite athletes should just waltz on in.

In the early 90's I was a huge Michael Jordan fan and every year the Detroit Pistons would squash all over Mike (even though he was the best). This is sports and why you play the games.
I suppose that he simply believes that there are many athletes out there that think the competitions should be a tad bit more standardized or legitimized. You are right, they have never claimed to be a pro sport but there are plenty of CrossFitters that would like to see it become that. It is kind of in the halfway there halfway not stage right now. I think that HQ has made it fairly clear, however, that they don't intend to go in this direction. Their split with Budding and his subsequent creation of the NPFL goes to show this! I think that something like that professional fitness might be something that athletes such as the author of this article might gravitate towards. We shall see!
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Old 05-21-2014, 10:08 PM   #26
Shawn M Wilson
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

For a while I was the "bad guy" at local comps as a judge...

When judging RX divisions I went over what was a rep and a no rep before the start of each heat with my athlete and told them what I expected. If they met it, it was a rep, if they didn't it was a no rep.

I no repped a girl who is good 7xs in a row on OHSquats because she never broke parallel. She is from our box. Her family and friends and even her were upset with me.

Afterwards she complained to me. I said did I or did I not go over the movement before hand.

She said yes.

I said during the WOD did I not call out no rep, go lower and break parallel in a loud voice in front of you.

She said yes.

I said did you not keep coming up before you went deep enough even though I never gave a physical cue you had completed the rep.

She said yes.

I said so what is it you are mad about.

She said now she couldn't win because I was so unfair...

What she meant was some other judge had allowed a girl who was RX in the heat before to not have to follow the standards. Was she right, sure. The head people and myself consulted and we removed that judge and only a specific group of other trained judges did the RX group anymore.

After that incident some people hated me, some people loved me, but everyone knew I made the right calls no matter what.

The female who won one competition I was out sought me out as a judge every time because she knew I only counted good reps (helps ppl to not think you are getting a free pass) and because I use verbal and visual cues to let you know of reps or no reps.

Now all that said, I am not here to float my own boat but to say I have watched many judges at many comps and have seen athletes pick out the judge they want who doesn't call no reps.

Watching the regionals I agree it's a tough venue. I think there needs to be more than just volunteers. You need judges who are trained, experienced and preferably paid. You also need methods of tracking judges calls to sort out the good and bad ones. We all have bad days but repeated constantly it's costly in a "sport" like this.

People often ask why I don't try to volunteer at regionals. Would I like to, sure, but with 5 kids and taking care of them, I would have to pay for a sitter + hotel room, + food, gas, etc. Oh and I could hear about the blown call I made seen by someone with a camera running in super slow mode from the sidelines with an angle that looks like they did/didn't do the rep like I called...

Also CFHQ needs to hand out clickers to their judges... Click for a rep... Check clicker... Yup 40 reps not 50 reps... 10 more to go...
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:09 PM   #27
Mario Beltran
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

You are right, there should be more experienced and well trained judges at Regionals. But I also think there are a lot of those. But what should HQ do, if they need a certain amount of judges in every region and there just aren't enough volunteers that meet these criteria?
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:13 AM   #28
Sean Dunston
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Drew Cloutier View Post
Do they not have to take exams like in the IPF and IWF?

another thing they could do as well, this would take better planning in terms of space, is have 2 judges per athlete watching them at all times.

the IPF uses 3 judges per lifter, to try to lower the amounts of bad calls, and because you can't always judge properly from a certain angle. I know it would be harder for Crossfit to do this, being that there is more movement and it can be quite dynamic, but I think it would be something to look at.
yes, I know IPF does and there are various levels of testing/qualifications.
at the beginning, in USAPL (sub group of IPF), you must take a written exam (fill in the blank, multiple choice, short essay answer, etc.) and a practical exam sitting with another referee, judging all 3 lifts during a meet. if you pass, you become a State level referee. after 2 years, and many more platform judging experiences, you are eligible to try the exams as a National level referee. again, more wait time and more judging experience, and then you're eligible to sit for the IPF exams.

but even then - reffing is still a voluntary job. as a meet director, the hardest thing to do is get enough referees to commit to your event.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:14 AM   #29
Greg Spaight
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Mario Beltran View Post
You are right, there should be more experienced and well trained judges at Regionals. But I also think there are a lot of those. But what should HQ do, if they need a certain amount of judges in every region and there just aren't enough volunteers that meet these criteria?
CF is an extraordinarily profitable venture. They should pay the judges. Period.

Is it awesome that it is a tight community? Yup. Is it awesome that judges want to volunteer to be a part of the action? Yup.
Will paying judges make it perfect. Nope.
Are there probably quite a few people who would make great judges that are not interested in donating time (time is $) to a hugely profitable corporation?
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:30 AM   #30
Andrew Scheid
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Jason A Smith View Post
I read the article and he is pretty much wrong right off the start. Lots of people who compete, pay to be at a competition, even when there is prize money on the line and the spectators pay as well. I competed in such a sport, and it is an Olympic sport as well.

Plus he never said he was called out as a gringo at Regionals but beforehand.

There are no "Pro" Crossfitters and I don't believe they have ever laid claim to being a professional sport. Everyone trains pretty much on their own dime (unless they get lucky and have a sponsor) for the opportunity to take home one of three cash prizes at the Games.

The purpose of the Crossfit Games as far as I know is to find the world's fittest, Castro et al make up the rules and you play along. It seems to me that this season people think that instead of going and actually winning the events that their favourite athletes should just waltz on in.

In the early 90's I was a huge Michael Jordan fan and every year the Detroit Pistons would squash all over Mike (even though he was the best). This is sports and why you play the games.
Your third paragraph is in direct contradiction with itself. If you have a sponsor for doing an activity, you are a pro.

In the early 90's, Michael and the Bulls made the playoffs each year, even though they didn't win their division. Maybe they lost a game or two that they shouldn't have. Maybe someone was sick or hurt, or they just had an off day; but at least they had a second chance to compete for the championship.
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