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Old 05-19-2014, 02:55 AM   #1
Chuck Golden
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Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

http://www.havokjournal.com/fitness/...is-not-a-sport (WFS)

Pretty interesting read. I'm not close enough to the events to know if some of his complaints are valid or not but his "solutions" in the second part of the article are pretty interesting. Having official qualifying competitions in the "offseason" would keep CF from going dark after the Games. If the judging is as bad as he says, and I think we all saw some blatantly bad calls this weekend, then it probably is time for some kind of "paid, professional judging."

What are everyone else's thoughts on this?
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:08 AM   #2
Justin Lawler
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

He's correct about the judging at least. I think Alyssa Ritchey was cost a spot at the games because of her judge yesterday in the Central East.

**edit: apparently this was beat to death in the other thread already**

Watch Central East Women's Event 7:

http://games.crossfit.com/video/cent...en-men-event-7

Shortly past 1:04 she's in the background finishing her reps. She is clearly done with rep 8 in control, but for some reason the judge delays it, and she drops the bar thinking she's done and begins to run for the finish. Perhaps a bit her fault here not waiting for the judge's approval, but it's CLEARLY a rep. She then struggles to bust out 1 more, and her time slips enough to knock her out of the games.

And why not automatic mats that stop your time? I can't believe we're relying on volunteers to stop a stopwatch to get your time.

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Old 05-19-2014, 08:10 AM   #3
Snir Golan
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Justin Lawler View Post
He's correct about the judging at least. I think Alyssa Ritchey was cost a spot at the games because of her judge yesterday in the Central East.

**edit: apparently this was beat to death in the other thread already**

Watch Central East Women's Event 7:

http://games.crossfit.com/video/cent...en-men-event-7

Shortly past 1:04 she's in the background finishing her reps. She is clearly done with rep 8 in control, but for some reason the judge delays it, and she drops the bar thinking she's done and begins to run for the finish. Perhaps a bit her fault here not waiting for the judge's approval, but it's CLEARLY a rep. She then struggles to bust out 1 more, and her time slips enough to knock her out of the games.

And why not automatic mats that stop your time? I can't believe we're relying on volunteers to stop a stopwatch to get your time.
yeah judging was lacking in this weekend. between Alyssa's no rep, Sidell getting that last rep even though it wasn't a snatch and she didn't go below parallel and a few other questionable calls, it is clear that judging still has a long way to go.
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:49 AM   #4
Wayne Geffon
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

There will always be errors and inconsistencies with human judging. Professional judging can help but will not eliminate all errors.

Last year at the Games during Cinco 1, Athletes were told that the handstand walk does not end until both hands are beyond the black lane. Go back and watch Rich Froning's HS Walk. One hand clearly did not leave the black mat. It wasn't called out. Would it have mattered in the end for Rich if they made him go back and finish it correctly? No. Probably not but, it would have mattered for other athletes if they didn't have to go back and finish the HS walk as directed.

Consistency is key. Much easier to say than do.
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:55 AM   #5
Tighe Crovetti
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Wayne Geffon View Post
There will always be errors and inconsistencies with human judging. Professional judging can help but will not eliminate all errors.

Last year at the Games during Cinco 1, Athletes were told that the handstand walk does not end until both hands are beyond the black lane. Go back and watch Rich Froning's HS Walk. One hand clearly did not leave the black mat. It wasn't called out. Would it have mattered in the end for Rich if they made him go back and finish it correctly? No. Probably not but, it would have mattered for other athletes if they didn't have to go back and finish the HS walk as directed.

Consistency is key. Much easier to say than do.
I vividly remember watching that event, and immediately going, "Um.......Froning didn't finish that...."
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:41 PM   #6
Zac Metz
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Chuck Golden View Post
http://www.havokjournal.com/fitness/...is-not-a-sport (WFS)

Pretty interesting read. I'm not close enough to the events to know if some of his complaints are valid or not but his "solutions" in the second part of the article are pretty interesting. Having official qualifying competitions in the "offseason" would keep CF from going dark after the Games. If the judging is as bad as he says, and I think we all saw some blatantly bad calls this weekend, then it probably is time for some kind of "paid, professional judging."

What are everyone else's thoughts on this?
I really hope that article gets noticed (and maybe even used to help change). He definitely brings up some huge issues, particularly the judging. I didn't really think about it but someone with nearly no knowledge of CF could have been out there judging next to a 3 year CF vet. Who do you want to be your judge? And I'll take a stab and say the judges for guys like Froning and the top athletes are probably pre selected. Anyway, I would love to see year round competitions and judges who are monitored for performance as well. CF is a massive cash cow and they make way more than enough money to re invest some into things to legitimize the "sport".
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:21 PM   #7
Jenni Hartman
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Zac Metz View Post
I really hope that article gets noticed (and maybe even used to help change). He definitely brings up some huge issues, particularly the judging. I didn't really think about it but someone with nearly no knowledge of CF could have been out there judging next to a 3 year CF vet. Who do you want to be your judge? And I'll take a stab and say the judges for guys like Froning and the top athletes are probably pre selected. Anyway, I would love to see year round competitions and judges who are monitored for performance as well. CF is a massive cash cow and they make way more than enough money to re invest some into things to legitimize the "sport".
There were some guys from my gym that were first-time Regional judges that were assigned to Akinwale and Tovar. I don't think they are pre-selected. I will say that they had other judging experience (local comps, etc), but it's just luck of the draw - it's assigned by heat and lane ahead of time, whoever you get is who you get.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:24 PM   #8
Snir Golan
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

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Originally Posted by Jenni Hartman View Post
There were some guys from my gym that were first-time Regional judges that were assigned to Akinwale and Tovar. I don't think they are pre-selected. I will say that they had other judging experience (local comps, etc), but it's just luck of the draw - it's assigned by heat and lane ahead of time, whoever you get is who you get.
As we saw in the case of Tovar that only did 40 box jumps or Emily Deet that only did 40 Deadlifts or in the case of Danielle Sidell that had a very questionable 3rd attempt in the Snatch even, inexperienced judging can really have a negative effect. just my opinion but i think it would make more sense to have people with a lot of judging experience judge the athletes that have a legitimate chance of making it to the games. just like you only see the most experienced referees in the big sporting events in other sports.

Last edited by Snir Golan : 05-19-2014 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:36 PM   #9
Chuck Golden
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

One thing that I thought about concerning judges, is how many people are on the Level 1 staff? I'd think they would ultimately make the best judges. That's a pretty big stable of paid, experienced and knowledgable judges. Just a thought....
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:57 PM   #10
Diana Alt
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Re: Regional Competitor - "CF is not a Sport"

I'm not sure Level 1 staff or super experienced coaches are necessarily the best judges. I have judged a lot, and am helping lead judging for some local comps (at boxes other than my own) and one if the trickiest things in judging is understanding that reps that are crummy technique but meet the movement standards are valid reps. Coaches are so often focused in proper form that they end up wanting to no rep valid stuff. I believe judging is a different (though related) discipline.

The team from my gym got caught on the wrong end of some icky judging, but to HQs credit, those judges that messed up got pulled out after the problems happened. Judging will always be in exact in events like this, so you just have to be glad that they removed egregiously bad judges when needed.
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