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Old 02-13-2012, 02:51 PM   #1
John Koshy
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which arch is better?

I've had some concerns regarding keeping my arch in an olympic squat lately....as a note, I am about 6'2 1/2 with long femurs, basically just some bad leverages for squatting. It's a shame I'm competing in powerlifting haha...at least the long arms with deadlifts.

Here are the two pics.....(links WFS)

(1) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1346514/IMG_0557.JPG

(2) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1346514/IMG_0556.JPG

Can someone confirm that my arch is definitely better in the second picture? I'm still messing around with foot stance/degree of turning on the olympic squat (I low bar-ed exclusively before that, so still adjusting to high bar position, etc.).......in the first pic, my toes are only turned out like 15 degrees...in the second one, they are probably closer to 25 or 30 or maybe even 35 degrees, and the arch looks better...does anyone agree? I guess with my long femurs, I have to accommodate by turning my feet out more.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:33 PM   #2
Kevin Carey
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Re: which arch is better?

The first one is major butt wink, the second one is better but could get better. Try straightening your toes a bit more so you can create more torque. Pushing your knees out while your toes are already out is like is like spinning the nut and the bolt at the same time- no torque.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:42 PM   #3
John Koshy
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Re: which arch is better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Carey View Post
The first one is major butt wink, the second one is better but could get better. Try straightening your toes a bit more so you can create more torque. Pushing your knees out while your toes are already out is like is like spinning the nut and the bolt at the same time- no torque.
Not sure I can go that low if my toes are pointed straight more....long femurs usually means you have to turn the toes out more, right?

Edit: the other thing I just realized after reading some butt wink articles around here is the concept of drawing myself into the hole by activating the hip flexors? How do I do this? Just focus on pulling myself down using the hip flexors? is it as simple as that?

Last edited by John Koshy : 02-13-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:46 PM   #4
Preston Sprimont
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Re: which arch is better?

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Originally Posted by John Koshy View Post
Not sure I can go that low if my toes are pointed straight more....long femurs usually means you have to turn the toes out more, right?

Edit: the other thing I just realized after reading some butt wink articles around here is the concept of drawing myself into the hole by activating the hip flexors? How do I do this? Just focus on pulling myself down using the hip flexors? is it as simple as that?
Eh, I don't agree. I am 6'1" with fairly long legs (long femurs too, but not disproportionally so), and my toes are generally pointed out around 10-15 degrees. Toes pointed out much more, and I feel like I lose some power and tend to roll onto my toes more; toes pointed completely forward, and I feel like I get some capsular inhibition in the hip joint which causes my hips to be pulled forward and I lose some lumbar curve in the hole.
Anthropomorphy will make everyone's "ideal" squatting position different, but I think the toes forward/out usually has more to do with mobility and time spent in that position. I think the hip capsule mobilizations help quite a bit.

As far as "drawing yourself into the hole," I can't say that I've ever read any articles on that idea, but I can say that when I more "actively" descend into my squat, everything goes better... seems to be a similar concept. I think it just helps me retain better stretch-reflex and positional torque, it keeps everything tighter (upper back, midline, etc.), and the ascent ends up being quicker/more explosive.
I don't suggest thinking about pulling with your hip flexors--in fact, I don't suggest thinking about "making" a particular muscle or muscle group do anything. That sounds like a recipe for paralysis by analysis. The way I do it is to think about where I want to "aim" my hips (i.e., where I want them to end up in the bottom of the squat), get set up and get solid, and then just go. I aim to be quick and to not have any slack anywhere.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #5
Kevin Carey
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Re: which arch is better?

Why do you need to "go that low"? Is it just for squatting sake? An inch or two of depth probably wouldn't be the difference of a missed clean or snatch- even if it did, do your clean and jerk and front squat PRs mirror one another? Most peoples' FS/OHS numbers outshine their CJ/snatch by a good margin. Pointing your toes forward puts tension on the muscles/ligaments/tendons, that's why you feel tight at the bottom. Pointing the toes out just leaves you hanging on your ligaments. When you have tension in the whole system, you have that much more elasticity to get you out of the hole. When you are just hanging on your joints, it's hard out of the hole- like a box squat. Let the system work as such and your mobility will catch up. Unless there is impingement, you will eventually be able to go that low. Deep squatting with your toes forward is good mobility RX, provided you follow it up and don't get tight after your workout.

Like Preston said, Louie Simmons says, "the faster you lower a weight, the faster you can raise it," in regards to stretch reflex. If you have enough weight on the bar, you won't have to worry about pulling yourself deeper into a squat- it will do that on it's own.

Last edited by Kevin Carey : 02-14-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:16 PM   #6
John Koshy
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Re: which arch is better?

Actually now that you mention it, I actually don't think I push my knees out....I definitely don't feel a stretch in the inner groin when I'm in the hole. I'm assuming that I'm supposed to?

Also squatting that deep because its good for ya lol...i'm a competitive powerlifter but I like the olympic squat a lot better, and I can practice low-bar a couple weeks out before my next meet.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #7
John Koshy
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Re: which arch is better?

On another note, since you guys mentioned shoving the knees out more, today in the middle of my overhead press workout on 5/3/1, I decided to do the squat stretch real quick...this one: (WFS) http://fromweaktostrong.files.wordpr...at-stretch.jpg

UMM..HOLY CRAP! That hurt...what's so tight? is it my adductors?? I held it for like 10 seconds, but that one time was enough that on my walk home 45 mins later, my glutes still felt somewhat sore/worked.
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:35 PM   #8
Tony Sutton
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Re: which arch is better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Koshy View Post
I've had some concerns regarding keeping my arch in an olympic squat lately....as a note, I am about 6'2 1/2 with long femurs, basically just some bad leverages for squatting. It's a shame I'm competing in powerlifting haha...at least the long arms with deadlifts.

Here are the two pics.....(links WFS)

(1) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1346514/IMG_0557.JPG

(2) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1346514/IMG_0556.JPG
I wonder what your hips would look like if you didn't squat so low. One of our clients hips rolls under in a super deep squat but they don't when cued just to break parallel.
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