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Old 02-18-2012, 09:34 PM   #1
Namir Yedid
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Very Low T at 30

Iíve not been feeling great for a year or so and recently got two sets of lab results with very low testosterone. Many symptoms match my subjective experience, without going into unprompted detail. I have an appointment with an endocrinologist in 2.5 weeks but would love to get some help on what might be going on. Iím pretty worried. I had one test on 12/28/2011 that came back at 415 ng/dL, and one on 2/12/2012 that was at 255 ng/dL. Obviously those are more like a man in his 60ís or older. Worse yet, my DHEA-S level was well above the reference range. Apparently this is uncommon. A little Google search brought up results that elevated levels of DHEA-S, accompanied by low Testosterone, can indicate adrenal disease/tumor/etc. Suffice to say, Iím pretty freaked out. Iím wondering if any medical professionals can give me a reaction, good or bad. Iím struggling without information.

I know that data is everything, so Iím including as much as I can here-- training, diet, injury history, results of two sets of blood work, and a spreadsheet with everything Iíve eaten in the last few weeks.

Basic: 30, male, 6í2Ē, 188lbs

Current training: Currently doing CF for MetCon 2-3x/week, accompanied by a push-pull lifting program (free weights, more pulling than pushing) and 1x/week of longer slower cardio (cycling or walking), doing this since 3/2011.

Training history: Found Crossfit in early 2009, started at an affiliate, trained 3 on/1 off for 18 months. Injury forced a change. Trained/ate like a bodybuilder for a few years (Ď04-í09), got up to 220lbs and felt like crap. Been training hard (lifting, conditioning, etc) since 2004. Swam masterís briefly after college, found weight training after. On crew team in high school.

Diet: Paleo with 85-90% compliance. Average intake of betwee 2300-2700 kCals/day depending on training. Focus on protein, lots of vegetables, healthy fats (homemade nut butters, coconut oil, dark chocolate). No refined sugar, gluten and dairy free, carbs come from fruit/yams/raw honey. Protein sources are boneless/skinless chicken breasts and thighs, tuna, eggs (whole and whites). Fat sources are raw nuts, coconut oil, olive oil, eggs. According to LiveStrong MyPlate, which Iíve been using since 1/31/2012, I average 266g carb, 101g fat, 146g protein. I drink 1 big cup of coffee every morning with coconut milk in it, drink moderately (1-3 glasses of wine or hard cider 1-3x/week), and donít use drugs of any kind. I take Vitamin D, B12, and a DHA-enhanced fish oil. I drink between 80-150 oz of water a day and donít drink sugary beverages.

Sleep and Stress: 7.5-9hrs/night, consistently. Iíd say Iím highly stressed. I work 45-50 hrs/week as a teacher with lots of extra projects (China trip for 105 people, running a service program, etc), am in graduate school one night a week and working on writing my masterís thesis, and just got out of a really stressful relationship at the very beginning of this year. On an average day I leave the house at 7am, work>gym>errands, get home around 6:30-7, cook dinner>clean house>read>get ready for bed. Getting everything done at this point means living this way, but I definitely feel like I donít have much room for play/relaxation/error-- sticking to the plan/schedule is essential.

Injury history: In Dec Ď09 I injured my back, 2-3mm bulged discs at L3-L4 and L4-L5, small annular tear at L5-S1. Since then Iíve had persistent SI joint dysfunction and occasional spasm in QL, paraspinals, etc. Completed 4 months of PT in 2010, trained throughout, resumed more intense training afterward. Stooping, bending for long periods of time, etc irritate back. Can squat, jump rope most of the time w/out trouble. Starting a new round of PT to sort out some thoracic mobility issues. Also dislocated right shoulder 7/2003, repeated dislocations followed. MRI showed posterior labral tear. Havenít had it repaired, can train around it.


Lab Results, 12/28/2012

I tried formatting these but the board won't allow it. The notable values are the low T and the high DHEA-S. My red blood cell count, platelet count, hematocrit, and hemoglobin are on the low(er) end but are probably not related.

Test Result Units Reference Range
Sodium 140 mmol/L 136-146
Potassium 5 mmol/L 3.5-5.1
Chloride 103 mmol/L 98-107
Glucose 92 mg/dL 70-99
C02 29 mmol/L 22-32
BUN 18 mg/dL 7/21/2012
Creatinine 1.1 mg/dL 0.7-1.3
Calcium 9.1 mg/dL 8.4-10.3
Albumin 4.1 g/dL 3.3-5.0
AST 23 Units/L 15-37
Protein 7 g/dL 6.0-8.0
Bilirubin 0.3 mg/dL 0.1-1.2
ALT 33 Units/L 12-78
Alk phos 43 Units/L 38-126
Osmo calc 292 mOs/Kg H20 280-305
Cholesterol 190 mg/dL <200
Triglycerides 116 mg/dL <150
HDL 58 mg/dL 30-70
LDL 109 mg/dL <130
TSH 3rd 1.46 mcIU/mL 0.358-3.8
B12 462 pg/mL 254-1320
Vit D 50.2 ng/mL 30-80
Test, Total 415 ng/dL 241-827

Hormone Panel, 2/12/2012
Estradiol 27 pg/mL 11.6-41.2
FSH 5.6 mIU/mL 1.4-18.1
LH 4.7 mIU/mL 1.5-9.3
Test, Total 255 ng/dL 241-827
DHEAS 463 mcg/dL 76-334
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:17 AM   #2
Steven Low
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Re: Very Low T at 30

Well, I'd probably cut down on the metabolic workouts and try to eliminate the stress if it all possible. If not, then try to get a massage or some other type of relaxation type thing in.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:13 AM   #3
Namir Yedid
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Re: Very Low T at 30

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Well, I'd probably cut down on the metabolic workouts and try to eliminate the stress if it all possible. If not, then try to get a massage or some other type of relaxation type thing in.
Could the stress cause both the low T and the high DHEA-S?
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:01 AM   #4
Steven Low
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Re: Very Low T at 30

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Originally Posted by Namir Yedid View Post
Could the stress cause both the low T and the high DHEA-S?
Stress, lack of sleep, overtraining, crap nutrition,-- all of these can cause low T. Not sure about the DHEA though
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #5
Namir Yedid
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Re: Very Low T at 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Stress, lack of sleep, overtraining, crap nutrition,-- all of these can cause low T.
I know. That's why I posted all my info to see if anything is obviously out of whack.

I'm still wondering if my nutrition, training, and sleep info, along with blood work, points to anything.

I realized I didn't paste in my blood count info, so for the sake of more info, here it is.

Test Result Units Reference Range
WBC 5.6 K/mcl 3.8-11.0
RBC 4.66 M/mcl 4.5-5.9
HGB 14 g/dL 13.5-17.0
HCT 41.2 % 41-53
MCV 88.5 fl 80-100
MCH 30.1 pg 26-34
MCHC 34.1 g/dL 31-36
RDW 11.3 % 10.5-13.5
Platelet Count 200 K/mcL 150-450
Neutrophils 48.3 % 44-70
Lymphocytes 39.7 % 25-46
Monocytes 7.5 % 1-12
Eosinophils 3.7 % 0-8
Basophils 0.7 % 0-2
Absolute Neut Ct 2.7 K/mcL 1.8-7.7
Absolute Lymphs 2.2 K/mcL 1.0-5.0
Absolute monos 0.4 K/mcL 0.-0.8
Absolute eos 0.2 K/mcL 0-0.5
Absolute baso 0 K/mcL 0-0.2
NRBC 0 /100 0
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:02 AM   #6
Wesley Robinson
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Re: Very Low T at 30

If you can get a physician to diagnose you with low T, I'd try to get testosterone supplimentation. You would probably feel better and no doubt have much better gains. People abuse steroids, but you could actually have a reason to use them : ) Normal/Higher test levels will help in all areas of life. You are only 30 and Test levels will cont. to reduce as you age. I'd seek supplimentation.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:43 PM   #7
Patrick Costello
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Re: Very Low T at 30

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Originally Posted by Wesley Robinson View Post
If you can get a physician to diagnose you with low T, I'd try to get testosterone supplimentation. You would probably feel better and no doubt have much better gains. People abuse steroids, but you could actually have a reason to use them : ) Normal/Higher test levels will help in all areas of life. You are only 30 and Test levels will cont. to reduce as you age. I'd seek supplimentation.
Testosterone is a steroid?
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:32 PM   #8
Chris Mason
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Re: Very Low T at 30

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Originally Posted by Patrick Costello View Post
Testosterone is a steroid?
Yes... You didn't realize that? All anabolic steroids are derivatives of testosterone.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:58 PM   #9
Daniela Jantzen
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Re: Very Low T at 30

Stress could be one cause, another one could be low thyroid levels.
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:56 PM   #10
Frank E Morel
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Re: Very Low T at 30

Ok ... There is several things that need to be cleared up.
These blood presented is from last year. Hormones fluctuate daily let alone 7 month later. These is evident on the two sets you posted. Tot tee was in the 4oos. Vs 200s

Have something current?


Next.
Your estrogen level is optimal. Low tee usually is offset by a high estrogen.
High e2 is bloating, emotional irritability, Semi functioning erection with prolonged ability to orgasm. Decreased / shortened orgasm
Low e2 painful joints, zero libido, non functioning erection that even viagara will not help with. Lastly, zero orgasm.
So that isn't your problem.

Dhea. That is NOT low either in fact , it's optimal for 20-30 yr group.
Plus dhea Levels bounce really hard during the course of a normal day, so holding a lot of credence to it by itself is wishful.
Dhea is different that dhea s. Both steroids but one water soluble the Other fat one converts into the other ... Scientists really don't have a full handle on these guys. Bottom line you were tested for dhea. Not dheas.

Next thing, Too much/ prolonged metabolic activity is the anti thesis to test production.
High stress, prolonged stress again anti thesis to test production.
****ty sleep is the killer in all hormone production. Sleep apnea is and low tee are bed mate problems. You snore?

The comment about low thyroid is correct but your blood work doesn't include a free t4 and free t3. So. That cannot be included or dismissed with your problem.

Go back repeat your blood work and see where you are.
If still low then you need to look at your lifestyle and make changes.

You need to Have your doc figure out if your pituitary gland is not working or if it's your testes.
Pituitary - MRI. Rule out a tumor Hypogononads.poor/ not teste production involves a hcg challenge to see if they can be forced to produce.
Check thyroid If that is low, then very likely that is your source of problem.

Mainly, stop freaking out... Your basing your fears on old data and mis information.
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Last edited by Frank E Morel : 08-17-2012 at 04:09 PM.
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