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Old 09-20-2011, 11:43 AM   #91
Aaron D Thomas
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

Ok, maybe we're mincing words here. You said, "Whey absorbs more than quickly enough without being hydrolyzed. In my considered opinion there is NO value to a faster absorption if it even occurs to any significant degree when hyrolyzed."

I assumed that statement meant that you did not believe that there was additional value with regards to a whey hydrolysate over other forms of whey protein. But you've clarified that you do, in fact, believe that there are benefits to using hydrolyzed whey.

As a business owner, you believe your product is better, and as a business owner I believe Progenex is better. That should come as no surprise, and ultimately the market decides. The only way people will truly know what's better for them is by giving both a try. Both are good options, and hopefully people will simply give each a try and use whichever works best.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:01 PM   #92
Chris Mason
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

Stu, you missed basically everything. First, I referenced those studies about 1 AM last night for someone here asking for them. They are not part of my promotional literature.

Next, if we use the honey funded example, there is a big difference between me using that study to back the idea PWO carb and protein are a good idea vs. someone referencing a study performed by a guy who works for a company that produces and sella hydrolyzed whey to establish the superiority of their product.

In other words, my studies referenced here we merely done to support the concept PWO nutrition is a good idea, not to sell you anything. In fact, I went so far as to say my PWO supplements are no better than food, merely more convenient.

If you don't see a difference that, to me, speaks to you not me.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Christensen View Post
Chris, Adam’s reference to the study seems no different to your post here in another thread….



…in which upon finding out each study was funded by a non-biased party pertaining to its study, you later state that….



So basically, its ok for you to reference studies that link ideas to your opinion (with other information also available in the study)…but its not ok for Adam to do the same thing (when all of them were funded by specifically/non-biased parties)?

Hmmmm. If I missed something, please explain. I'm not trying to offend, just honestly curious.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:03 PM   #93
James Orr
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

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Originally Posted by Aaron D Thomas View Post
There's a reason that over 60% of CrossFit Games competitors were using Progenex. So if anyone tries just one bag of Progenex consistently and doesn't feel that it's produced results, we'll give them a full refund.
Aaron, this is an honest question. I'm not trying to bait your or incite an argument. Do those athletes pay full price?

Why don't you include any carbs in the recovery? I don't know WHY recovery products usually have a 2:1 carb/protein ration, but I would guess it's to get the insulin up so it takes the protein where it needs to go.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:42 PM   #94
Aaron D Thomas
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

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Originally Posted by James Orr View Post
Aaron, this is an honest question. I'm not trying to bait your or incite an argument. Do those athletes pay full price?

Why don't you include any carbs in the recovery? I don't know WHY recovery products usually have a 2:1 carb/protein ration, but I would guess it's to get the insulin up so it takes the protein where it needs to go.
That's a great question for sure. Many of those athletes do pay full price. The majority of the athletes who receive a discount simply have their own affiliate code that they use, which we also utilize with gym owners who promote our products. So most of those athletes who are using discount codes are using the same type of 10% off code that is available to anyone.

We arrived at the 60%+ number by going through our orders and manually searching for the athletes placing orders. For example, we had no idea that Dan Bailey was using Progenex until we saw the video on the Games site where he said that he used Progenex. We didn't know that Annie Thorisdottir was using our product until her parents stopped by our booth at the Games and told us that she was using it and loved it.

With regards to your question about carbs in our products, there are 11g of carbs currently, which is enough to shuttle the amino acids into the damaged muscle cells. It will replenish a little glycogen without spiking insulin. While many people prefer a 2:1 ratio, many also like having less carbs (and some prefer 3:1 or 4:1). Some prefer a bit of an insulin spike, while some don't. The carb aspect is very easy to adjust, so we tell people that they can mix in whatever carbs that they like.
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:51 AM   #95
Stu Christensen
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Stu, you missed basically everything. First, I referenced those studies about 1 AM last night for someone here asking for them. They are not part of my promotional literature.

Next, if we use the honey funded example, there is a big difference between me using that study to back the idea PWO carb and protein are a good idea vs. someone referencing a study performed by a guy who works for a company that produces and sella hydrolyzed whey to establish the superiority of their product.

In other words, my studies referenced here we merely done to support the concept PWO nutrition is a good idea, not to sell you anything. In fact, I went so far as to say my PWO supplements are no better than food, merely more convenient.

If you don't see a difference that, to me, speaks to you not me.
Chris, you missed my point. I know exactly what you were saying. I really don't care what time you referenced them...the fact is you chose to post those studies up, and all 3 were found to have biased funding - just as Aaron's did. In all honestly, 90% of studies are biased and two studies, both scientifically sound will absolutely contradict one another and everything that's read needs to be taken with a "grain of salt". I have read the entirety of both threads. It was pointed out in the other thread that you were using studies that were funded by factions that have a specific interest in ensuring what they find in the study benefits them - and you stated that obviously that may shed a different light on the studies and possibly a little doubt on their efficacy. That is the exact same as the study Aaron listed. I was just wondering why the double standard? Both were used to point out the efficacy of a product and its benefits.

I do agree, Aaron is trying to sell his product...but so are you. Whether its At Large, Westside or whatever. I have used At Large products - in fact - I've previously won a picture competition ON YOUR BOARD (or Daniel's board....however you look at it). I'm a member of WBB and have been for years - hell, I've PM'ed you specific training questions in the past looking for advice. I support you and what you stand for or I tried to - but at least Progenex always shipped to Canada... which I can't say for AtLarge.

But I was curious as to why the percieved double standard - that the studies you posted were ok despite the funding contributer have a biased interest in the results but Aaron's study, also have a funding contributer that has an interest in the results was not ok. That's all. Geez. I figure your answer is because you were only talking about one faction of the study on how something worked...not the entire study?

Last edited by Stu Christensen : 09-21-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:11 PM   #96
Chris Mason
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

Stu, again, that to me should be pretty evident as I feel I explained it well. If you can't understand what I have stated I don't think I can do anything more to help you.
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:15 AM   #97
Stu Christensen
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Stu, again, that to me should be pretty evident as I feel I explained it well. If you can't understand what I have stated I don't think I can do anything more to help you.
I understand completely but disagree there is a big difference.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:49 PM   #98
Chico deme
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

Plenty of companies now claim grass-feed/free-range/organic etc., but the definition of what that means and if it is even enforced becomes a different story. I am definitely a fan in that direction, but don't buy into all the hype.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:04 AM   #99
Craig Horstman
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

Ok, so without starting a new thread, and with several people in here who obviously know what they're talking about (me not being one of them), I use GNC Pro-Performance 100% Whey PWO and Pro Performance 100% Casein before bed. My reasoning is that I've been using GNC protein off and on for several years, it's inexpensive, and it gets to Afghanistan quickly. What are the pro's/con's to their product? Again, I'm protein stupid and never really watched my diet until recently. Little help?

Last edited by Craig Horstman : 10-31-2011 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:54 AM   #100
Aaron D Thomas
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Re: if protein powder is protein powder is protein powder...

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Originally Posted by Craig Horstman View Post
Ok, so without starting a new thread, and with several people in here who obviously know what they're talking about (me not being one of them), I use GNC Pro-Performance 100% Whey PWO and Pro Performance 100% Casein before bed. My reasoning is that I've been using GNC protein off and on for several years, it's inexpensive, and it gets to Afghanistan quickly. What are the pro's/con's to their product? Again, I'm protein stupid and never really watched my diet until recently. Little help?
That product is a blend of whey concentrate, isolate and hydrolysate (primarily concentrate). It will not absorb as quickly post-workout as a straight isolate or hydrolysate will. However, it does come with a lower price tag because in general concentrates are much cheaper to produce because they involve less of a refinement process.

Many people avoid concentrates due to the additional fat and lactose. But if you haven't had any issues, then you may have less lactose sensitivity.

If it's working, stick with it. If you want to try something new, Progenex ships quickly to APO's, and we also do a 20% military discount, making the price very reasonable.
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