SDHP

Dan Colson · 10-18-2006, 12:21 PM

This is purely disection but as I understand the Sumo deadlift High Pull, Sumo refers to the stance (wider foot placement) as well as the hand position (inside the legs). Everything else is pretty self explanatory. How important is it to maintain this stance and hand placement to be considered a SDHP. I only bring this up because I see the tendency for people to narrow the stance which few can pull off without poor posture. I guess I like to be true to the exercise Sumo means Sumo, also this stance tends to feel completely different than the normal DL stance. I guess I like to get a concrete exercise description, seems as if it doesn't matter then why is Sumo even part of the description. Just curious.

Barry Cooper · 10-18-2006, 02:59 PM

I guess that has to do with what I said on the other thread. I thought about clarifying it, but decided not to.

The basic issue is how you get around your knees. With the Sumo stance, it's less of an issue. Because you are opening your hips, they can be placed closer to the bar. This means less movement forward obviously. Equally obvious, in both cases the bar is UNDER the center of mass. In one case, the torso is more forward, the hips more back, in the other--Sumo--the hips are less back, and the torso less forward. The plane bisecting the torso into a center mass vector line stays the same, roughly over the middle of the feet.

There are good powerlifters who use both. With respect to what I was trying to say on the other thread, though, the issue is the same. A deadlift--high pull is basically what most people call a high pull. You get, somehow, the bar around your knees, then using a powerful shrug and hip extension, you create elevation which carried upwards bends your arms. You can involve your arms if you want, but for O-lifting it's probably a bad habit. In thinking about it, that may be why we do Sumo High pulls, to keep the movement but reduce confusion.

What it does NOT include, in my understanding, as I've always seen it, is a double knee bend. It's just straight up and down. If you plotted the accelleration, there would be no "4th gear" at the point of the scoop, just a steady, linear accelleration.

This is why, in my view, Coach B. is absolutely correct in his focus on the "up and down". It's quick, it's invisible, and it's indispensible. That it's hard to coach doesn't mean it shouldn't be coached.

Dan Colson · 10-18-2006, 05:48 PM

I'm not opposed to either stance I guess I always assumed the sumo stance was implied by the title. it certainly feels different. From my experience when I insist on a Sumo stance I find it unveils inflexibility in the Adductors for many people (usually I'm looking for a stance aat least a few inches wider than normal, definitely not extremely wide but enough to be considered sumo). I guess I'll set my own rules on this one. Thanks for the input though.

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10-18-2006, 12:21 PM	#1
Dan Colson Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Rockford Illinois Posts: 145	This is purely disection but as I understand the Sumo deadlift High Pull, Sumo refers to the stance (wider foot placement) as well as the hand position (inside the legs). Everything else is pretty self explanatory. How important is it to maintain this stance and hand placement to be considered a SDHP. I only bring this up because I see the tendency for people to narrow the stance which few can pull off without poor posture. I guess I like to be true to the exercise Sumo means Sumo, also this stance tends to feel completely different than the normal DL stance. I guess I like to get a concrete exercise description, seems as if it doesn't matter then why is Sumo even part of the description. Just curious.

10-18-2006, 02:59 PM	#2
Barry Cooper Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 2,187	I guess that has to do with what I said on the other thread. I thought about clarifying it, but decided not to. The basic issue is how you get around your knees. With the Sumo stance, it's less of an issue. Because you are opening your hips, they can be placed closer to the bar. This means less movement forward obviously. Equally obvious, in both cases the bar is UNDER the center of mass. In one case, the torso is more forward, the hips more back, in the other--Sumo--the hips are less back, and the torso less forward. The plane bisecting the torso into a center mass vector line stays the same, roughly over the middle of the feet. There are good powerlifters who use both. With respect to what I was trying to say on the other thread, though, the issue is the same. A deadlift--high pull is basically what most people call a high pull. You get, somehow, the bar around your knees, then using a powerful shrug and hip extension, you create elevation which carried upwards bends your arms. You can involve your arms if you want, but for O-lifting it's probably a bad habit. In thinking about it, that may be why we do Sumo High pulls, to keep the movement but reduce confusion. What it does NOT include, in my understanding, as I've always seen it, is a double knee bend. It's just straight up and down. If you plotted the accelleration, there would be no "4th gear" at the point of the scoop, just a steady, linear accelleration. This is why, in my view, Coach B. is absolutely correct in his focus on the "up and down". It's quick, it's invisible, and it's indispensible. That it's hard to coach doesn't mean it shouldn't be coached.

10-18-2006, 05:48 PM	#3
Dan Colson Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Rockford Illinois Posts: 145	I'm not opposed to either stance I guess I always assumed the sumo stance was implied by the title. it certainly feels different. From my experience when I insist on a Sumo stance I find it unveils inflexibility in the Adductors for many people (usually I'm looking for a stance aat least a few inches wider than normal, definitely not extremely wide but enough to be considered sumo). I guess I'll set my own rules on this one. Thanks for the input though.