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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-08-2010, 04:07 PM   #21
Shane Skowron
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
With that being said, though, I don't think we should become divisive over what is, in terms of training, small changes. Adding one slow distance day a week is not a large change in programming from what CFE does
Maybe 1 day a week doesn't seem like much. But if you ask anyone in the ultramarathon community how to prepare for an ultra, they'll tell you do 1 long run per week similar to the race you're training for, and then run whenever you can the rest of the week. I've even heard of people who just do 1 long run per week and no other exercise the rest of the week, and they do just fine. Over at CFE they emphatically say that you shouldn't go over 13.1 miles in training. I'm not sure if they do it to try to separate themselves from everyone else (not necessarily a bad thing), or if they really believe that it doesn't help you.

If you read the CFE FAQ here (wfs), they answer the question - "How am I going to become efficient at running if I am not running long distances?" by saying basically, specificity and third-wave adaptations.

First, the question isn't really complete because you can be a super-efficient runner and still not be able to run that far or fast. Secondly, it's self-contradictory. If the answer is "specificity," then shouldn't you be running at a distance that is specific to the race? In other words if you're training to run hours at a time, then shouldn't you occasionally run hours at a time?


Brent also mentioned the nutrition thing. I don't know why but I have an iron stomach and can eat anything at any time and never get sick or cramp up. For other people though, exercise and eating do not mix, and so most people would benefit by practicing nutritional techniques during long runs. The longer distances that CFE prescribes (10-13.1 miles) will help you do that to some extent, but maybe not enough. I read a few reports by guys who did Ironmans via CFE and ended up feeling queasy or cramping up in the 2nd half of the race (after 13.1). I can't help but think those things may have been averted with a couple of practice long runs.

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
and even if long slow endurance has unique benefits I still think we'd all agree that most general fitness goals can be accomplished with more time efficient workouts (i.e. shorter, high intensity work) so that for most CFer without specific endurance goals regular long slow road work is still not necessary.
Yes, this is true.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:37 PM   #22
Jonathan Yoon
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
First, the question isn't really complete because you can be a super-efficient runner and still not be able to run that far or fast. Secondly, it's self-contradictory. If the answer is "specificity," then shouldn't you be running at a distance that is specific to the race? In other words if you're training to run hours at a time, then shouldn't you occasionally run hours at a time?
Careful now, you're starting to sound like that Jones guy who has that Gym. :stir:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Brent also mentioned the nutrition thing. I don't know why but I have an iron stomach and can eat anything at any time and never get sick or cramp up. For other people though, exercise and eating do not mix, and so most people would benefit by practicing nutritional techniques during long runs. The longer distances that CFE prescribes (10-13.1 miles) will help you do that to some extent, but maybe not enough. I read a few reports by guys who did Ironmans via CFE and ended up feeling queasy or cramping up in the 2nd half of the race (after 13.1). I can't help but think those things may have been averted with a couple of practice long runs.
To add to this, speaking from experience in trying this myself, do not assume that trying to eat during the rest periods of doing 4 x 5k sessions is a substitute for training to eat for an ultra-distance race. You try this and you might as well carry an airline sick bag with you, provided you're not doubled over with a pain in your gut that is splitting you sideways.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:11 PM   #23
Steve Yu
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

I don't think that just going off of the mainpage WOD is a good idea because, in my experience, the lack of time and volume doesn't prepare your musculo-skeletal system for the pounding of 100 miles on your doggies.

From my limited experience, (Big Sur IM x2):

Long run once per week. CF mainpage WOD 1-2x per week. Maintenance run 1x per week. Tempo/hills 1x/week (if I could fit it in).

I found that heavy lifting, i.e.: 5 reps or less/set was too stressful to recover from when compounded with the long run. The WOD's tended to be bodyweight MetCon.

My total training volume was pretty low, but I have found that I need LOTS of recovery time and am prone to over-training.

This worked for me to finish just fine without injury and without eating into my family time excessively.

That's a great goal you've set, I'll be excited to hear how you execute your plan and the end results!
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:26 AM   #24
Matt Price
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

Good luck man. I too have been considering next spring doing a ultra in the Keys (FL). Have never attempted anything close to this distance i have been pondering on what exactly my training will be. I plan on doing a half and a full between now and then to get used to what my body will feel like. My biggest question has been what is the reality of training a long run anywhere close to this distance. what would a long training run for an ultra be? 13miles, 20 miles or farther? any further help or suggestions would be awesome.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:10 AM   #25
Jonathan Yoon
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

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Originally Posted by Matt Price View Post
Good luck man. I too have been considering next spring doing a ultra in the Keys (FL). Have never attempted anything close to this distance i have been pondering on what exactly my training will be. I plan on doing a half and a full between now and then to get used to what my body will feel like. My biggest question has been what is the reality of training a long run anywhere close to this distance. what would a long training run for an ultra be? 13miles, 20 miles or farther? any further help or suggestions would be awesome.
There's no right answer for this. Some people maintain a consistent long run of 18-20 miles weekly. Others cycle between 2-5 hours of running or longer. Some will use marathons, 50k's, 50 milers, and 100k's as practice sessions before their 100 mile event. Main thing is to get time on your feet so the muscles, tendons, and bones in your feet, ankles, and legs adapt to the stress.

If you're planning on doing the Keys 100, it's going to be flat and hot without shade. It's also going to be dangerous due to running on the road along side of the cars. Your long runs would best be suited on flat roads and I'd recommend practicing to mix running and walking (I like 2-3 minutes of running with 2-3 minutes of walking) and to do this in the heat if you can.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:25 AM   #26
Matt Price
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Yoon View Post
There's no right answer for this. Some people maintain a consistent long run of 18-20 miles weekly. Others cycle between 2-5 hours of running or longer. Some will use marathons, 50k's, 50 milers, and 100k's as practice sessions before their 100 mile event. Main thing is to get time on your feet so the muscles, tendons, and bones in your feet, ankles, and legs adapt to the stress.

If you're planning on doing the Keys 100, it's going to be flat and hot without shade. It's also going to be dangerous due to running on the road along side of the cars. Your long runs would best be suited on flat roads and I'd recommend practicing to mix running and walking (I like 2-3 minutes of running with 2-3 minutes of walking) and to do this in the heat if you can.
Heat i am used to living in Central FL, I typically get my running in now around 430pm not optimal due to intense heat 100+ heat index plus humidity. I usually due around 5-8 miles. hoping next week or so to change schedule allowing me around 2-3 hrs of free time in am hrs so might start with 1-3 hr runs then thanks for input.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:55 AM   #27
Wendy Greene
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

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I'm training for an ultra right now using the S&C WODs from CFE and some of the actual endurance WODs. I'm basing my training off of the advice I've recieved from a couple of different people who have been there and done that. Everything I've done so far is posted in my log. Check out crossfitendurance.com if you haven't already, lots of information there.
Dude!!! Thank you so much for this link. This is exactly what I need
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:04 AM   #28
Thomas Bailly
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

You may want to start with a marathon or 50 miler.
After about 90 minutes of running or (anything else) hydration and nutrition become paramount, it can take a while to dial in nutrition....will probably require some trail and error....do not underestimate this.
Remember what CFE is (from cfe site): "CrossFit Endurance was created with the belief that you have taken the time to learn the skill of your sport. If you have not, you have no business here, or competing in this sport" ie :have done a lot of running.

Could you do a 100 miler from CF alone? Probably, exceptional couch potatoes have. But why would you? Learn instead about what it takes to fuel yourself correctly for that timeline, what your body and mind require for preparation. You wouldn't have a new Crossfitter from a running only background attempt a 500 pound squat his first time out.

You don't have to run everyday for hours but you should become comfortable with running and fueling for hours.
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:38 AM   #29
Brian Negrotto
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Re: Ultra Marathon from Crossfit alone?

I have been taking a lot of Shane's advice in training for the rougeorleans (WFS) ultramarathon and have recently ran into a problem. I am using the 3 on 1 off scheme for my strength and conditioning training, running 2-3 intervals a week, and 1 long run. My long run the other day was scheduled for 4 hours, however, after 3 hours my legs were gone and I chose to cut it off there so as to avoid any potential problems. Two days before that I had done some heavy backsquats and I think that was contributor. What advice might you give for programming that would best complement my long run days?
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