C2 Drag Factor: A guide to what you may not know. - Page 8

Chris Wyant · 09-27-2005, 03:18 PM

Marshall,
4 as default does not mean anything in regards to the erg. The message I have been attempting to spread is to rely on a drag factor as opposed to numbers. While a 4 may have been used as a default for the lightweight men - the drags may have been anywhere from 115 to 135. Also I know for a fact that depending on where you went to college affects the training that is utilized.

And while yes those are good workouts to reduce a 2k time - doing those at this point in the season when the race is in january would prove to be redundant and would actually be less beneficial in the long run.

The workout that I am creating at this point in time for Jim involves longer endurance pieces as opposed to heavy sprinting pieces (which is not to say he will not be doing them in upcoming weeks) all I am saying is that for a race that is still months away - a base must be built first of all.

Doing 100 meter sprints all day long on a track will not prepare you for a mile run in 5 months.

Chris Wyant · 09-27-2005, 03:23 PM

Jim,
Good question in regards to the 50+ catagory. It depends on the particular athlete - if the individual has remained active all of their life - they are obviously capable of withstanding a higher work load whereas those who are just begining to excercise will have issues. In terms of general fitness, as opposed to training just for the sport of rowing, the intense erg sessions are a bit much after an intense WOD. But I am not saying it can not be done. Recently after doing a brutal WOD I went on to do a 6k at race pace. It destroyed me - but it was needed. In regards to 50+ it has to be a balance - if the +50 year old wants to race an erg event, then by all means they should get some distance in after a WOD - 6-10k. It does not need to be intense - but just to get the movements, a base, etc. On days where the workouts are not as intense/ off days, then go for the harder workouts.

Jim Howe · 09-27-2005, 03:48 PM

50+... I never thought it would me that this advice would be aimed at. I feel young and fit, and I am in many ways more capable than when I was younger... Never stop learning, never stop striving.

09-27-2005, 05:43 PM

Has anyone tried the Waterrower. and if so, how do you rate it to the concept2. I have a waterrower, And I use a concept 2 quite often. I find that the waterrower offers better resistance throughout the entire stroke whereas you all know when you get the concept 2 moving it is almost resistance free. My times on the concept2 have greatly improved since switching to using the waterrower as my primary erg. If you don't have one at least try one as see for yourself. Either way you can't go wrong.

Chris Wyant · 09-27-2005, 05:51 PM

And it is people like you that can take the hard WOD and then move onto erging. Either that or mix it up a bit. Instead of running 400 meters - row 1000 meters. Even though the normal equivalent is 400 run to 500 row...every extra bit helps.

Lincoln Brigham · 09-27-2005, 10:01 PM

Chris, I wonder if the drag factor of 128 at a damper of 7 was due more to elevation than the machine - it's 4,500 feet where I live.

Chris Wyant · 09-28-2005, 12:41 AM

Lincoln - as far as I know - I have never heard elevation affecting the erg. Though it makes sense - on a side note - there is an erg race at that elevation and for 2k they give a handicap of close to 10 seconds for all rowers. For instance you may pull 7 mins at your elevation but coming down to sea level you would be expected to pull around 650. On a side note - intresting study was done a few years back suggesting that altitude training worked if you lived at high altitudes and trained at sea level. While your base fitness increases at the higher altitudes - your peak performance diminished. I'll try and find the article.

10-01-2005, 02:00 PM

Chris,
I tried to post this earlier this week, but for some rreason it didn't stick.

I initially followed this post from work, so I wasn't reading it carefully enough. I misunderstood the drag factor and wasn't aware that it was a function on the Model C (which came out when I was a college sophmore). That sounds like a great addition, I never knew ergs could have so much variability.

I thought there was a post earlie in the thread asking how to improve 2k times, and didnt realize anyone was training fora later date. Concept 2 has a great training section to their website that has loads of workouts you can filter by goal and experience level. Here are two links:

http://www.concept2.com/05/training/...g/workouts.asp

http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php

Finally, a thread that deserves to be started (and one I would help contribute to) is something on rowing technique. Crossfit dedicates a lot of time to the technical side of oly lifting and other excercises but I have yet to see any meaningful discussion of proper / safe / efficient rowing form. I think given the size, strength and fitness levels I see on the boards a few technical pointers could drive times much lower.

Best,
Marshall

09-27-2005, 05:43 PM	#74
Nicholas Curson Profile: Posts: n/a	Has anyone tried the Waterrower. and if so, how do you rate it to the concept2. I have a waterrower, And I use a concept 2 quite often. I find that the waterrower offers better resistance throughout the entire stroke whereas you all know when you get the concept 2 moving it is almost resistance free. My times on the concept2 have greatly improved since switching to using the waterrower as my primary erg. If you don't have one at least try one as see for yourself. Either way you can't go wrong.
Nicholas Curson Profile: Posts: n/a

10-01-2005, 02:00 PM	#78
marshall bush Profile: Posts: n/a	Chris, I tried to post this earlier this week, but for some rreason it didn't stick. I initially followed this post from work, so I wasn't reading it carefully enough. I misunderstood the drag factor and wasn't aware that it was a function on the Model C (which came out when I was a college sophmore). That sounds like a great addition, I never knew ergs could have so much variability. I thought there was a post earlie in the thread asking how to improve 2k times, and didnt realize anyone was training fora later date. Concept 2 has a great training section to their website that has loads of workouts you can filter by goal and experience level. Here are two links: http://www.concept2.com/05/training/...g/workouts.asp http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php Finally, a thread that deserves to be started (and one I would help contribute to) is something on rowing technique. Crossfit dedicates a lot of time to the technical side of oly lifting and other excercises but I have yet to see any meaningful discussion of proper / safe / efficient rowing form. I think given the size, strength and fitness levels I see on the boards a few technical pointers could drive times much lower. Best, Marshall
marshall bush Profile: Posts: n/a

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09-27-2005, 03:18 PM	#71
Chris Wyant Member Profile: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 178	Marshall, 4 as default does not mean anything in regards to the erg. The message I have been attempting to spread is to rely on a drag factor as opposed to numbers. While a 4 may have been used as a default for the lightweight men - the drags may have been anywhere from 115 to 135. Also I know for a fact that depending on where you went to college affects the training that is utilized. And while yes those are good workouts to reduce a 2k time - doing those at this point in the season when the race is in january would prove to be redundant and would actually be less beneficial in the long run. The workout that I am creating at this point in time for Jim involves longer endurance pieces as opposed to heavy sprinting pieces (which is not to say he will not be doing them in upcoming weeks) all I am saying is that for a race that is still months away - a base must be built first of all. Doing 100 meter sprints all day long on a track will not prepare you for a mile run in 5 months.

09-27-2005, 03:23 PM	#72
Chris Wyant Member Profile: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 178	Jim, Good question in regards to the 50+ catagory. It depends on the particular athlete - if the individual has remained active all of their life - they are obviously capable of withstanding a higher work load whereas those who are just begining to excercise will have issues. In terms of general fitness, as opposed to training just for the sport of rowing, the intense erg sessions are a bit much after an intense WOD. But I am not saying it can not be done. Recently after doing a brutal WOD I went on to do a 6k at race pace. It destroyed me - but it was needed. In regards to 50+ it has to be a balance - if the +50 year old wants to race an erg event, then by all means they should get some distance in after a WOD - 6-10k. It does not need to be intense - but just to get the movements, a base, etc. On days where the workouts are not as intense/ off days, then go for the harder workouts.

09-27-2005, 03:48 PM	#73
Jim Howe Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Salt Lake City UT Posts: 64	50+... I never thought it would me that this advice would be aimed at. I feel young and fit, and I am in many ways more capable than when I was younger... Never stop learning, never stop striving.

09-27-2005, 05:51 PM	#75
Chris Wyant Member Profile: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 178	And it is people like you that can take the hard WOD and then move onto erging. Either that or mix it up a bit. Instead of running 400 meters - row 1000 meters. Even though the normal equivalent is 400 run to 500 row...every extra bit helps.

09-27-2005, 10:01 PM	#76
Lincoln Brigham Affiliate Profile: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sedona AZ Posts: 2,599	Chris, I wonder if the drag factor of 128 at a damper of 7 was due more to elevation than the machine - it's 4,500 feet where I live.

09-28-2005, 12:41 AM	#77
Chris Wyant Member Profile: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 178	Lincoln - as far as I know - I have never heard elevation affecting the erg. Though it makes sense - on a side note - there is an erg race at that elevation and for 2k they give a handicap of close to 10 seconds for all rowers. For instance you may pull 7 mins at your elevation but coming down to sea level you would be expected to pull around 650. On a side note - intresting study was done a few years back suggesting that altitude training worked if you lived at high altitudes and trained at sea level. While your base fitness increases at the higher altitudes - your peak performance diminished. I'll try and find the article.