CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-23-2009, 05:23 PM   #1
Sean J Hunter
Member Sean J Hunter is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Shore  New Zealand
Posts: 621
Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

Functionally what is the difference between the C+J and the Snatch.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen the videos and SEE the difference.

To me the Snatch just looks like a non-stop C+J.

How does the Snatch work the body differently from the C+J?

From a practicaly lift PoV...what can I do with the Snatch that I can't so with the C+J?

Sean
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 05:47 PM   #2
Joe Cavazos
Affiliate Joe Cavazos is offline
 
Joe Cavazos's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston  Texas
Posts: 776
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

The Snatch has increased requirements for flexibility, balance, and speed. The C&J requires more strength. I'd wager that they're about equal in terms of power generation.
__________________
My WFS Log || Stats I'm least proud of: Max Muscle-ups: 1 | Max Push-ups: 38 | Max HSPU: 9 | 19" Vertical Leap | Max L-sit: 5 sec.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 05:56 PM   #3
Sean J Hunter
Member Sean J Hunter is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Shore  New Zealand
Posts: 621
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

OK,

So why do I want to learn the snatch over the C+J. In a real world situation, industrial Athlete wise. What is it giving me that the C+J doesn't.

I could argue the same about the OH Squat. It's a Snatch component. If the snatch is industrially redundant then so is the OH Squat. I can't see myself Snatching anything but a equally weighted Bar, which in the real world is pretty uncommon. If I am right (NOTE: I have no idea what I'm talking about) then why are we bothering with the Snatch, just cos its an Oly lift doesn't make it a real lift right?

Sean

Last edited by Sean J Hunter : 05-23-2009 at 05:59 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 05:59 PM   #4
Joseph Abraham
Member Joseph Abraham is offline
 
Joseph Abraham's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: King of Prussia  PA
Posts: 23
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

With the snatch you don't have the luxury of racking the weight on you chest before pushing it over head.

Your using your more power and speed to get that bar right over your head straight from the ground.

The snatch is harder to master. Your probably not going to completely break your athletic development just doing the power clean.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 06:01 PM   #5
Joe Cavazos
Affiliate Joe Cavazos is offline
 
Joe Cavazos's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston  Texas
Posts: 776
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

I'm not sure what you mean by industrial athlete. In the real world, which I guess refers to a life where the most physical thing you do is help a friend move, I'd say the C&J is more useful. But in terms of athletic (sport) application I'd probably go with the Snatch.

Comparing the merits of the two exercises is fun and all, but is there a reason you can't learn and practice both?
__________________
My WFS Log || Stats I'm least proud of: Max Muscle-ups: 1 | Max Push-ups: 38 | Max HSPU: 9 | 19" Vertical Leap | Max L-sit: 5 sec.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 06:27 PM   #6
Sean J Hunter
Member Sean J Hunter is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Shore  New Zealand
Posts: 621
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

Great Question Joe and thanks for the reply.

Essentially I don't see the need to waste time on a lift I don't need, it's like doing Bicep curls in the Gym, I just don't need it so I don't do it. I'm not saying the CF guy don't know what their doing, but we all know that CF is GPP focused the moment I want to be SPP focused I have to gain understanding of what each exercise is supposed to achieve and then decide wither I want to do it.

I'm adding is CFSB to my program and looking at the lifts I want to focus on.

These are gimmes
1) SHOULDER PRESS - Maybe replace with Push Press?
2) DEAD LIFT
3) SQUAT - Front or Back or Both - Not sure?
4) BENCH PRESS
5) PULL UP - 1RM
6) DIP - 1RM
7) CLEAN - Hanging Clean, Power Clean, Full Clean, add in the Push Press? - Not Sure yet
8) HIGH PULL - I've heard that the risk of injury is high as you start to approach higher weights? If so I still want to increase this Lift, but need to understand where the safe limit and only build to there.


Some are just Combos and so I am ignoring them from a Fundamental Limit Strength Building PoV
1) Thrusters - FS / Push Press
2) Sumo DL HP - Deadlift / High Pull
3) Rope Climb - Basically a skilled Pull-up
4) Muscel up - Pull up / Dip

These Seem Pointless
1) Push / Split Jerk - Not real world - unless there are some cross training benefits to these lifts I can't see someone using these in the Real World (i.e. Military / LEO)
2) Snatch and its components - OH Squat, Power Snatch
Again don't seem Real World to me

Not Sure of These
1) Turkish Getup - 1RM
Stability? Hip ROM?
2) Full Clean and Push Press - (DL.Clean.FS.PP)
Probably good to tie all these things together at some point - But still a Skill thing not a direct Strength thing
3) Casulaty Carries are another interesting SPP - but I wont go here yet

So why am I asking these questions.
I want to tie down what my SPP core Limit Strength lifts are from an and supplement my program with these. The CF 9 Core Lifts seem to focus more on the techneque side then the holistic strength side. They are trying to get us to ultimately the C+J and the Snatch. The Snatch and the Jerk just don't interest me, I can't see the benefits (correction welcome).

So yes this is an SPP question.

Feedback Welcome

Sean

Last edited by Sean J Hunter : 05-23-2009 at 06:30 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 07:34 PM   #7
Joe Cavazos
Affiliate Joe Cavazos is offline
 
Joe Cavazos's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston  Texas
Posts: 776
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean J Hunter View Post
So why am I asking these questions.
I want to tie down what my SPP core Limit Strength lifts are from an and supplement my program with these. The CF 9 Core Lifts seem to focus more on the techneque side then the holistic strength side. They are trying to get us to ultimately the C+J and the Snatch. The Snatch and the Jerk just don't interest me, I can't see the benefits (correction welcome).
I see your points, though I'd disagree. I suppose I'd agree if I shared your view of what constitutes "real world," though I think my definition is less restrictive.

An important note to make is that a training movement doesn't have to mimic a real-life movement exactly for it to be effective. Squats are ridiculously effective at building functional strength, even if we rarely flex our knees past parallel.

I'd recommend against not practicing the Jerk because (1) it's an explosive movement that best replicates an actual jump, which I believe is a very functional movement, and (2) because supporting a weight overhead is one of the best ways to develop core strength (which is useful in pretty much every movement where you apply force), and the Jerk allows you to get the maximum possible weight overhead.

I'd recommend against not practicing the Snatch just because you never know when that extra flexibility and balance will come in handy. Plus, it's not like it doesn't require strength -- just a little less than the Clean.

If you don't want to train an exercise, that's perfectly fine. Just make sure you're omitting it for the right reasons.
__________________
My WFS Log || Stats I'm least proud of: Max Muscle-ups: 1 | Max Push-ups: 38 | Max HSPU: 9 | 19" Vertical Leap | Max L-sit: 5 sec.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 07:47 PM   #8
Dale F. Saran
CrossFit Staff Dale F. Saran is offline
 
Dale F. Saran's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Westerly  RI
Posts: 558
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

"Real world" is code for "I don't really like it or have the desire to do it so I'll justify not doing it by using this term". Don't confuse mimicry for functionality. There are many, many exercises that do not have a "real world" movement analogue that produce tremendous benefits for "real world" applications. OHS is one of those. I would submit it is one of the single best exercises for training core strength, balance, coordination and a host of others. Do it ballistically (the snatch) and now you've added speed and agility to that list.

If you're training for something very sport specific, well, hey, fine. Don't snatch. But I can't imagine that there is a sport that doesn't benefit from core strength, increased agility, balance, and speed. One man's opinion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 08:07 PM   #9
Joey Harper
Member Joey Harper is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gardner  KS
Posts: 45
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

The higher you get your snatch the more athletic you will be in general and the more carry over in to "real life" there will be as well. Just look at the verticals of Olympic level lifters. They don't train there vertical jump, it is a side effect of their training.

However I don't think two threads were necessary, if you don't want to snatch, then don't snatch. Just know you are missing out on a valuable lift, comparing the snatch to bicep curls is silly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 08:11 PM   #10
Sean J Hunter
Member Sean J Hunter is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Shore  New Zealand
Posts: 621
Re: Clean & Jerk vs Snatch

Hey Joe and Dale,

Great stuff guys, that's the food for thought I was looking for

Cheers

Sean
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Snatch, clean & jerk form check Joachim Lennerskans Digital Coaching 0 05-20-2008 11:10 PM
Snatch vs. clean & Jerk? Jan Bester Exercises 4 10-06-2007 03:26 PM
Clean and Jerk & Snatch - Question Chris DeMarzo Exercises 7 09-24-2007 10:04 PM
In or near North OC? Want to Snatch/Clean & Jerk tonight (Friday) with USAW #1 ranked 105 kg lifter in California? Jeff Davis Community 0 02-24-2006 01:12 PM
Clean & Jerk, Snatch replacements? Kevin Weinkauff Exercises 6 10-09-2005 08:29 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.