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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 03-29-2009, 05:34 PM   #1
Skylar Cook
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Ring Dips

I remember a discussion on kipping MUs a while back where a few people commented on a sort of "double kip," where your legs swing back during the dip portion after swinging forward for the PU and transition. Is the same type of kip "legal" for WODs like the 10x 10 PUs and 10 dips that came up a while back?

I'm thinking it is, but would like some outside input.

[Searched, didn't find anything. If I missed something, please direct me.]
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Old 03-29-2009, 05:47 PM   #2
Jason David
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Re: Ring Dips

Yeah...whatever enables you to do the workout faster...
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:46 AM   #3
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Ring Dips

I would disagree. The dip is not supposed to have a kip, it is a strength movement. It's more important when you get to the rings as kipping can lead to epic fail and shoulder injuries.

"Yeah...whatever enables you to do the workout faster... "

I think we need to draw the line somewhere. You can shorten the ROM and get faster times as well.
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Old 03-30-2009, 11:40 AM   #4
Jason David
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Re: Ring Dips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
I would disagree. The dip is not supposed to have a kip, it is a strength movement. It's more important when you get to the rings as kipping can lead to epic fail and shoulder injuries.

"Yeah...whatever enables you to do the workout faster... "

I think we need to draw the line somewhere. You can shorten the ROM and get faster times as well.
assuming the ROM is still there. Go down and up as fast as possible. A kip adds an element of coordination and power to the movement.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:02 PM   #5
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Ring Dips

Since the dip is dynamically unstable (the further you get from center, the more you body wants to move away from center) where as the pull is dynamically stable (the more you move away from center, the more your body wants to return to center), I would think the additional movement would increase the possibility of injury to a an extent that makes it not worth it.

You could just get a stronger dip to decrease time.

Legal, maybe, but not very safe, and realy gets rid of the strength portion of the movement.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:14 PM   #6
Robert Callahan
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Re: Ring Dips

yeah but it is the same analogy as a strict pull-up to a kipping. For a metcon the primary purpose of having ring dips is not to build strength. Whereas if you are doing them as skill/development work to get stronger/better at ring work they are being done for strength and should be done strict. But for metcon where you are just trying to increase work capacity I think kipping would be fine. It is just getting more musculature involved to move the same weight the same distance but faster
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:15 PM   #7
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Ring Dips

But that still doesn't address the safety issue with the ring dips.
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:21 PM   #8
Robert Callahan
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Re: Ring Dips

I guess I don't fully understand the safety argument. All I understood a dip kip to be was initiating the upward movement out of the hole with an explosive jerk up of the legs to get your body moving that direction. This means you are not moving any further away from the center than if you kept your body fully extended and locked out as in a strict dip.

And kipping pull-ups certainly put more stress on our shoulder joints, but not enough to make them dangerous and not worth doing. Same thing in this situation no?
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Old 03-30-2009, 12:38 PM   #9
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Ring Dips

THe issue isn't the stress the kip places on your shoulder (in the kip, your shoulder are active so the stress is on the muscels, not the joint itself). The problem is that any forward or backward motion in the dip is a recipe for disaster.

If you are in a pull up and lean forward or backward, what happens? Your body wants to return to the center. THis is a dynamically stable position. If you mess up your kip, you get out of sync, lose rhythm and some time, which is not a huge deal.

But what happens when you lean forward or back backwards in a dip? Your body wants to keep moving in that direction and the further away from center you move the worse this gets. In addition, if you bail on ring dips, you still have to avoid the rings on the way down.

Yes, the kip is not SUPPOSED to move you front or back, but it has a good chance of doing when people get tired, fatigued, etc.
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:28 PM   #10
Skylar Cook
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Re: Ring Dips

The chances of hurting yourself with a failed clean or snatch also dramatically increase as one fatigues. But that doesn't stop us from doing Grace and Isabel.

i.e., the risk of injury greatly increases with fatigue, but I don't think so much so that it is prohibitory in this case. With failed cleans and snatches, you're banking on the fact that you can either get out of the way or push the bar far enough away so that you're not going to hurt yourself. With dips, you've gotta let go, and drop to the ground.

Furthermore, as I said, this kip is commonly incorporated into the MU. I'm pretty sure the 30 MU for time WOD would see much slower times without it, suggesting that we're already using it in WODs, and I haven't seen much complaint of kipping MU related injuries.
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