Benchmark weights for various lifts.

[John Velandra]

Thanks to CFNorth. Great resource for gaugeing fitness & planning!

[Ross Hunt]

First of all: Really cool resource! Thank you for posting it.

Second of all: It seems to me that some of the numbers are a bit uneven.

For instance, in the elite category, 40 dead hang pull-ups is a great feat of strength-endurance. A 5-minute mile, while it might be difficult for heavier athletes to attain, is frankly not incredibly impressive. For instance, this time would probably not be sufficient to secure a medal at small-division high school state meet. Maybe 4:30 for elite, 4:45 for advanced?

Similarlly, 1:04 is a rather slow 400--you couldn't even win a small regional meet with that time. Perhaps a sub-minute 400 for advanced, sub-55 for elite?

In the advanced catgeory, C+jing two 16-kilo kbs for 100 reps in ten minutes is much easier than snatching a 24-kilo KB for 200 reps in the same time period. Even 24-kilo long cycle C+J, that would be easier--that's just 10 105# c+js a minute. Maybe this could be replaced with a high Grace score? E.g., sub-3:00 or sub-4:00 for advanced, sub-2:00 for elite?

In the advanced category, a 25" vertical leap seems low. Many people probably have this without any training. I tested at 27 a couple months ago, with a squat below 1 1/2xbodyweight and a history of distance running. :biggrin: What stands out most starkly in this category, however, is that a bodyweight lift is required in both the clean and the snatch. I got a bodyweight C+J after a couple months of taking oly lifting seriously. Over a year later, I'm taking another shot at the bodyweight snatch tommorow, and it's gonna be rough. If you're going to encourage proportionate development of the competition lifts, you could require a bodyweight clean and an 80% or (to make it easier, and allow for the technical difficulty of the snatch) a three-quarters-bodyweight snatch for advanced.

Again, I realize that there are a lot of criticisms here. I think benchmark scores like this are a really good idea. I just saw a couple areas here where I fall into elite or advanced scores according to this chart, and my gut reaction was: 'I know what elite is, and it ain't me--YET.' :happy:

(Message edited by Orestes122484 on May 20, 2006)

[Adrian Bozman]

Great score-sheet CF North! I'm planning on creating something similar down the road and I have a question that you may have discussed already:

Why no absolute lifts (ie. Deadlift 500lbs) in the more advanced categories?

With so many bodyweight challenges I don't think it would run the risk of being 'easy' for the super-heavyweight dudes. Seems like a truly elite athelete (in the CF life-preparedness sense of the word) would be able to perform some fairly heavy work regardless of their bodyweight, as opposed to just relative to it.

Thoughts?

[Russ Greene]

Good point, Adrian. The BW stuff favors skinny guys like me already, so it makes sense to balance it out with absolute rather than relative strength standards. Rocks, boats, bags, and companions that need to be lifted and carried don't adjust their weight relative to your bodyweight. Similarly a muscleup and rope climb isn't any less necessary for a 250 lb. guy than it is for a 140 lber.

[Blair Robert Lowe]

I used to run just over 5 min mile in HS. Put it this way, I was lapped by the guys who were doing around 430 to place and medal. Some might have done sub 430. OTOH, I was right up there with the girls winning the girls 1 mile time. Well, sometimes if I ran my very best and didn't tank a run.
1:04 is a pretty slow 400. I agree sub 55 would be better. Hell, I ran that in HS.

For instance some of the coaches decided to test their vertical leap when the girls were doing strength and flexibility testing. The female coaches ( a few who can still tumble RO-BH- full twisting layout or 3/2 4/2 fulls ) were just under 20". The 16yo in my adult class was between 20-24 inches and besides being a 6 foot beanstalk who is in decent/good shape did that. Another of the former gymnasts was just under 30 and I was just a bit under him. Then again basketball atheletes are known to have 3 or 4 foot vertical leaps but they could just be freaks with frog legs as well. Vertical leap though is based a bit on overall height though. Most of our compulory girls were 12-18" as well. I should probably test more of the boys.
I kinda like this chart. It shows that I'm somewhere between 2 and 3. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. An impromptu weigh in on a cheap Ikea scale had me tipping at 181 in day clothes and stuff after lunch. Which is way heavier than I thought I was...by a margin of 15 pounds. This has really baffled me as I've felt my diet has gone better the past few months and fitness levels. Time for a body fat testing to tell the truth.

[John Frazer]

Thought I'd ask my questions again before the thread gets archived:

all Level I:

1. What's "knees to chest (sitting)"?

2. What's the weight for the 25 KB swings?

3. For "Christine" -- what are the deadlift load and box jump height?

[Allen Yeh]

John,

I was looking around the Crossfit North Site and found that Christine is this:

3 rounds: 500M row, 12 bodyweight deadlifts,
21 box jumps at 24 inches

[David Werner]

John, Allen

Sorry I'm slow getting back to you. There have been many good questions fired my way and I'm working on one explanatory piece. In the meantime here are a few random thoughts.

For Level I, it really is just an entry level as I explained in the write up, the emphasis is on form. So I was deliberately vague about loads and times in level I, your form will dictate what the Deadlift load will be. This is not much of a dodge because that loophole goes away on Level II. Yes Christine is properly done with bodyweight deadlifts and 24" box jumps. But I've tested hundreds of beginners with Christine, and I can count on one hand those who were able to do body weight deads with good (even marginal) form. This is too important an issue to let slide so I rarely have beginners doing Christine as prescribed. Even so the workout is an awesome introduction to Crossfit stimulus. Many apparently fit young people have been brought to complete meltdown with 75 or 90 pound deads and 18" box jumps. Besides, at Level I the Deadlift standard is only 3/4 bodyweight.

The same discussion applies exactly to the Kettlebell swing question. Please note that on higher Levels there is no such ambiguity.

Sitting knees to chest looks a bit like V-ups without the straight legs. Start on your back with legs straight and off the ground, pull yourself up to a balanced position with legs tucked and knees as close to chest as possible - back must come completely off the ground also, return to beginning position. Heels do not touch the ground during a set.

A quick point that I will explain in more detail soon;

NONE of the skills - at any Level - are very impressive to a specialist. Level IV calls for a 5-minute mile, this will not win any races. The strength standards are not impressive to a strength specialist, the Olympic weightlifting numbers are beginner’s numbers, and gymnasts would just scoff at the skill level of any of these requirements.


But the combination of these abilities is very rare, and at Levels III and IV an athletes GPP is truly outstanding.

This is why there are no absolute limit strength requirements. What? We're going to claim that there are no Elite women Crossfiters because none can Deadlift 500? That wouldn't make any sense at all.

Even in sports where limit strength is the measure, weight classes are used. Limit strength really is partly a function of lean body mass. I didn't feel like developing weight classes so I expressed everything as a percentage of bodyweight. Same Thing.


Crossfit is a GPP program, we are not trying to create specialists, this is a GPP set of standards. As I said in the write up "Any additional requirements of your sport need to be added to the list"

Thank you all very much for taking the time to look these over and weigh in. I fully expect that there will be fine tuning of the standards over time. Right now they represent the experience of many coaches that I’ve learned from, both in person and in print, and my own experience.

Regards
Dave Werner
Crossfit North

[John Frazer]

Dave,

Thanks very much for the response. Depending on "Christine" results, I should be able to check off Level I over a few warmups.

Level II will be a whole 'nother story.

John

[Barry Cooper]

I'm not always as diligent in reading everything as I should be, so I just saw that, but David I have to say that's a thing of beauty. I'm going to print it and put it on my wall.