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Old 05-26-2008, 04:16 PM   #1
Terry ONeill
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Fuhrman vs Paleo

I do Paleo but am thinkinking of going Fuhrman Eat to Live.

Fuhrman has alot of bad things to say about meat. Is he right?
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:25 PM   #2
Scott Clark
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

Fuhrman is a vegan who sits on the board of the PCRM ( www.pcrm.org ) WFS

Eat To Live contains plans that include animal products, but he basically rails on them throughout the entire book. Is he right? Who knows. There's about a billion ways to distort data and make it fit your agenda, all of the "experts" do it.
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Old 05-26-2008, 05:54 PM   #3
Bonny Guang
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

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Originally Posted by Scott Clark View Post
Fuhrman is a vegan who sits on the board of the PCRM ( www.pcrm.org ) WFS

Eat To Live contains plans that include animal products, but he basically rails on them throughout the entire book. Is he right? Who knows. There's about a billion ways to distort data and make it fit your agenda, all of the "experts" do it.
I was so confused until I read an Amazon review of the book... So he outlines both a vegetarian and a non-vegetarian way of doing things, even though he himself is a vegan?

"You may already know that the conventional 'solution' to being overweight - low-calorie dieting - doesn't work. But you don't know why. It is for this simple yet overlooked reason... being overweight is not caused by how much they eat but by what they eat... What makes many people overweight is not that they eat so much more but that they get a higher percentage of their calories from fat and refined carbohydrates, or mostly low-nutrient foods."
-excerpted from the intro of the book

I mean, sounds sort of like the Zone to me. The index has sections on Arachidonic Acid and EFAs, so I imagine he doesn't mean ditch fat altogether. And if he doesn't let his personal views on veganism get in the way of recommending different dietary methods, props to him.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:21 PM   #4
Scott Clark
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

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Originally Posted by Bonny Guang View Post
I was so confused until I read an Amazon review of the book... So he outlines both a vegetarian and a non-vegetarian way of doing things, even though he himself is a vegan?

"You may already know that the conventional 'solution' to being overweight - low-calorie dieting - doesn't work. But you don't know why. It is for this simple yet overlooked reason... being overweight is not caused by how much they eat but by what they eat... What makes many people overweight is not that they eat so much more but that they get a higher percentage of their calories from fat and refined carbohydrates, or mostly low-nutrient foods."
-excerpted from the intro of the book

I mean, sounds sort of like the Zone to me. The index has sections on Arachidonic Acid and EFAs, so I imagine he doesn't mean ditch fat altogether. And if he doesn't let his personal views on veganism get in the way of recommending different dietary methods, props to him.
Eat To Live was written for people that are obese. He does include a vegetarian menu and even writes about including white meat and dairy 1-2x a week, but spends a lot of time preaching the ills of animal protein. He's not as low fat as Ornish or McDougall, but he's still a very low fat advocate.

It's certainly not Zone, as he spends several pages bashing Barry Sears lol.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:39 PM   #5
Bonny Guang
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

Ah, ok, I've never read the book, just the little Search Inside! feature Amazon has, so you would be the authority.
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Old 05-26-2008, 07:27 PM   #6
Emily Mattes
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

What exactly is this guy's anti-meat argument?

I understand people who are vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons. I understand people who are vegetarian because they have an intestinal disorder that makes processing meat difficult. I don't understand people who argue meat-eating is inherently bad for human beings--we have canines for a reason, right? If it was poisonous, why did we evolve as omnivores?
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:17 PM   #7
Cormac O'Connor
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

I'm guessing it's not an anti-meat argument per se; more an indictment of the current state of the meat industry and it's products. Beef pumped full of growth hormones, mercury-laden fish, chicken steeped in fecal matter etc. (these are just the common accusations I've heard at places like Mark's Daily Apple - i have no data to add myself, i hasten to add...)
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:26 AM   #8
Terry ONeill
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

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Originally Posted by Cormac O'Connor View Post
I'm guessing it's not an anti-meat argument per se;
He's not only anti-meat, he's completely anti-animal protein. He claims a direct correlation between "consumption of meats, poultry, eggs and dairy products, with heart disease, cancer, kidney failure, constipation, gallstones, diverticulosis, and hemorrhoids, just to name a few".

That's about as strong as you can get.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:13 AM   #9
Amy Tompkins
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

Is he right? I'd have to give the cryptic answer that "no one is right 100% of the time". I don't think there is "right" as much as there is "right for you" or "right for your goals".

If you want to try Eat to Live, it's certainly not going to kill you. I advocate turning yourself into a science experiment and trying it out for a period of time. Record what you eat, how you feel, and how your body changes or adapts - then decide if it's "right for you". Of course, if your experiment is a positive experience we'd all like to know about it here.

I joke now that I'm a "recovering vegan", but I do still think there is a lot to be gained by researching and experimenting with different ways of eating. I've tried Eat to Live, the Thrive Diet, raw vegan, vegan, vegetarian, Body for Life - and now I'm trying the Zone. Through my personal experimenting I've learned a lot about the food we put into ourselves (though some of it contradictory), and best of all - I've learned some great recipes along the way! For example; having done raw vegan - I know how awesome and light I can feel when I'm getting lots of greens and healthy fats every day, and I know plenty of ways to prepare mass quantities of greens in such a way that I don't get sick or bored of eating so much plant life. Though now I'm also eating meat, that knowledge sure does come in handy for the Zone. What did I learn from Eat to Live? Well again, mostly it was a lesson in what kinds of foods made me feel energetic, strong, and focused instead of lethargic and slow. I learned about how my body reacts to dairy products - and how I do without them. I also learned how to cook vegetables so they taste good without having to add a lot of salt or fat. All good lessons, IMHO.

Everything in moderation - especially moderation.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:10 PM   #10
Scott Clark
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Re: Fuhrman vs Paleo

Fuhrman has an impressive list of references that support his stance on the dangers of animal protein, but we all know that cherry picking data is rampant on all sides of the issue.

I think too many confuse/distort correlation and causation, and the divide between the two is enormous. I just don't feel that one can say red meat or milk or anything can lead to heart disease and cancer without taking a look at the hundreds of other factors. Genetics, environment, habits (smoking, drinking) activity level, mental well being (stress). It could go on forever with no real proof of anything.

I do find it contradictory and hilarious how Fuhrman criticizes EVOO for being "highly processed" and then recommends soy milk, almond milk, rice milk, and several other items which are not only processed, but aren't even real foods.
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