Results after one cycle of Coach Rut's ME Black Box

Ross Hunt · 06-08-2005, 05:37 PM

I posted here several weeks ago asking for suggestions for adapting Coach Rutherford's ME Black Box for OL (April Performance Menu). The results were excellent:

Total Body ME Exercise: Snatch Pull

195-pound 1RM, up 20 pounds from 175. 185-pound 3RM, up 20 pounds from 165.

Lower Body ME Exercise: Front Squat

225-pound 1RM. Previous 1RM unknown, but 225 is my best back squat...

My bodyweight is up from the high 160s to the mid to low 170s (@ ~6'), but the mirror and a couple-rep increase on kipping chins tell me that I haven't gained much bodyfat. My 'wind' is pretty good too; a move from sea level to 7k has thrown me a bit, but I set a Fran PR recently, so I'm guessing I certainly haven't lost any ground here either.

Coach Rutherford, thank you for an excellent program. After my last ME Upper Body workout I am repeating the cycle with back squats and clean pulls.

Bryce Lane · 06-08-2005, 08:18 PM

Where is the "performance menu" where I can go to see the program? Looks interesting, besides anything called "black box" peaks my curiousity.

Bryce

Tom Schneitter · 06-08-2005, 08:58 PM

Bryce
the performance menu can be found at www.crossfitnorcal.com The April 2005 issue has the article about the ME black box.

Bryce Lane · 06-08-2005, 09:08 PM

Thank you.

Bryce

Michael Halbfish · 06-08-2005, 10:30 PM

Coach, I'd love to know what your thoughts are on the black box?
Is anyone doing a blackbox Gangliardi style ie as an extra workout? What are people's thoughts on this?

Michael Rutherford · 06-09-2005, 09:04 AM

Mike-

Everyone recovers differently. I don’t know the details of Matt’s training, but I would say most people would die trying to mirror his efforts. His 2-3 x daily workouts are over the top for those who attempt to balance work, family and other social obligations. He is what some have called a RECOVERY GIANT. His body adapts quickly and completely.

Conversely, an athlete who is often injured has unexplainable muscle and tendon problems or has unexplainable viruses all the time is a RECOVERY MIDGET. Most of us are somewhere in the middle or more NORMAL.

You can have either more volume or more intensity with your training. The short duration, high intensity mixed model of training has proven superior. It’s a fine line between optimizing your training programming and doing too much.

From where I sit, attempting to duplicate Matt’s multiple training session approach would be realistic for only a very few.

Chris Forbis · 06-11-2005, 01:41 PM

Is there any chance you could elaborate further on the scheduling beyond the first 24 days? (as illustrated in the Performance Menu)

My interpretation is to just repeat the cycle, but replace the foundation movement with the secondary foundation movement. Ramp up the weight to keep within 90% as needed. Accurate interpretation? Or do you discard the 5-5-5-3-3-3 days in favor of 3-3-3-1-1-1 once you're in the program?

You give hang cleans as the secondary foundation movement for the total body. Squat or power?

I figure these details are of minor importance relative to actually jumping in with the program (i.e. >90% days), but it's stuff I'm interested to know regardless...

Chris Forbis · 06-11-2005, 03:23 PM

One more, on ME days, how much rest time between sets?

Michael Rutherford · 06-12-2005, 06:02 AM

Are you still making progress? If you are still making progress, you will be using greater loads on this rotation. As you stated you could/should decrease the volume and up the intensity with more singles or doubles if all systems are GO!

If you are not progressing then you need to evaluate multiple factors in your training and your lifestyle.

In my example the hang clean (hg) is caught in the power position. It is assumed that cleans from the deck are caught more in a squat position.

Since the objective on ME days is to use greater loads, the R.I. will likely range from 2-5 minutes.

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06-08-2005, 05:37 PM	#1
Ross Hunt Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Annapolis MD Posts: 912	I posted here several weeks ago asking for suggestions for adapting Coach Rutherford's ME Black Box for OL (April Performance Menu). The results were excellent: Total Body ME Exercise: Snatch Pull 195-pound 1RM, up 20 pounds from 175. 185-pound 3RM, up 20 pounds from 165. Lower Body ME Exercise: Front Squat 225-pound 1RM. Previous 1RM unknown, but 225 is my best back squat... My bodyweight is up from the high 160s to the mid to low 170s (@ ~6'), but the mirror and a couple-rep increase on kipping chins tell me that I haven't gained much bodyfat. My 'wind' is pretty good too; a move from sea level to 7k has thrown me a bit, but I set a Fran PR recently, so I'm guessing I certainly haven't lost any ground here either. Coach Rutherford, thank you for an excellent program. After my last ME Upper Body workout I am repeating the cycle with back squats and clean pulls.

06-08-2005, 08:18 PM	#2
Bryce Lane Departed Profile: Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 41	Where is the "performance menu" where I can go to see the program? Looks interesting, besides anything called "black box" peaks my curiousity. Bryce

06-08-2005, 08:58 PM	#3
Tom Schneitter Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 132	Bryce the performance menu can be found at www.crossfitnorcal.com The April 2005 issue has the article about the ME black box.

06-08-2005, 09:08 PM	#4
Bryce Lane Departed Profile: Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 41	Thank you. Bryce

06-08-2005, 10:30 PM	#5
Michael Halbfish Member Profile: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Brunswick NJ Posts: 399	Coach, I'd love to know what your thoughts are on the black box? Is anyone doing a blackbox Gangliardi style ie as an extra workout? What are people's thoughts on this?

06-09-2005, 09:04 AM	#6
Michael Rutherford Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Leawood Kansas Posts: 200	Mike- Everyone recovers differently. I don’t know the details of Matt’s training, but I would say most people would die trying to mirror his efforts. His 2-3 x daily workouts are over the top for those who attempt to balance work, family and other social obligations. He is what some have called a RECOVERY GIANT. His body adapts quickly and completely. Conversely, an athlete who is often injured has unexplainable muscle and tendon problems or has unexplainable viruses all the time is a RECOVERY MIDGET. Most of us are somewhere in the middle or more NORMAL. You can have either more volume or more intensity with your training. The short duration, high intensity mixed model of training has proven superior. It’s a fine line between optimizing your training programming and doing too much. From where I sit, attempting to duplicate Matt’s multiple training session approach would be realistic for only a very few.

06-11-2005, 01:41 PM	#7
Chris Forbis Member Profile: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Joplin Missouri Posts: 922	Is there any chance you could elaborate further on the scheduling beyond the first 24 days? (as illustrated in the Performance Menu) My interpretation is to just repeat the cycle, but replace the foundation movement with the secondary foundation movement. Ramp up the weight to keep within 90% as needed. Accurate interpretation? Or do you discard the 5-5-5-3-3-3 days in favor of 3-3-3-1-1-1 once you're in the program? You give hang cleans as the secondary foundation movement for the total body. Squat or power? I figure these details are of minor importance relative to actually jumping in with the program (i.e. >90% days), but it's stuff I'm interested to know regardless...

06-11-2005, 03:23 PM	#8
Chris Forbis Member Profile: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Joplin Missouri Posts: 922	One more, on ME days, how much rest time between sets?

06-12-2005, 06:02 AM	#9
Michael Rutherford Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Leawood Kansas Posts: 200	Are you still making progress? If you are still making progress, you will be using greater loads on this rotation. As you stated you could/should decrease the volume and up the intensity with more singles or doubles if all systems are GO! If you are not progressing then you need to evaluate multiple factors in your training and your lifestyle. In my example the hang clean (hg) is caught in the power position. It is assumed that cleans from the deck are caught more in a squat position. Since the objective on ME days is to use greater loads, the R.I. will likely range from 2-5 minutes.