Pose method running, again

[Rene Renteria]

In the “reformed heel-striker” thread, Eugene had another nice post that mentioned Pose running and pointed out some other threads that talked about it (Thanks, Eugene!). I was going to post a question about the differences between Pose and ChiRunning (and whether this might be considered just a fad) but first searched for “pose running method” in PubMed. It brought up a paper that included not only Dr. Romanov, the originator of the “Pose Method”, but also T. Noakes, proponent of the “central governor” hypothesis in controlling maximal exercise efforts, which I had read about while looking into the idea of allostasis and muscle fatigue. Seeing these two together also brought to mind John Walsh’s admonition about mixing commercial enterprises with fact-seeking (my interpretation), given the possible conflict of interest inherent in Dr. Romanov’s making his living by teaching and pushing the Pose Method. Romanov’s contact address is listed as Noakes’ on the paper, at the University of Cape Town, but a search of their site doesn’t bring up any hits for his name. (Note that the paper was published in a peer-reviewed journal and is from a reputable University; I’m not in any way suggesting that there is anything underhanded about this research.)

Looking at the PoseTech website, Noakes is seen endorsing Romanov and hoping to prove the worth of Romanov’s techniques:

http://www.posetech.com/pose_method/aboutdr.html
Nicholas,
Thank you so much for introducing me to your revolutionary ideas. It takes great courage to go against the grain of conventional wisdom and to challenge the experts. I hope that our laboratory will be able to prove the truth behind your ideas. Congratulations and do not waiver! The truth must arise.
Professor Tim Noakes,
Author of Lore of Running,
Cape Town University

Who could ignore these woven threads? (Including the unrelated factoid that Czar Nicholas II Romanov’s reign of Russia ended rather violently in 1917 because of “revolutionary ideas”! Noakes’ diction reads like an old telegraph message passing underneath the noses of enemy states at great risk. It's also funny that he tells him not to "waiver", as in not waiving his commercial rights or something (instead of "waver"; but I'm just getting distracted).)

A little Googling on Pose running brought up some message board posts, too, including this:

http://www.trifuel.com/forums/archiv...php/t-163.html
Coach Dave
12-11-2004, 06:17 AM
I have just returned from a weekend in South Beach Florida with Dr. Nicholas Romanov. I have been interested in this method of running for sometime and whne I was at the USA Olympic Training Center in Colorado last month for my USA Triathlon Level 2 Coaching Certification the run presenter - George Dallam used the POSE Method as his running form model. It seems that George, Joe Friel & USA Triathlon have adopted this method. Last year I had a plantar fasciattis situation which evolved into a damaged fat pad under my heel. As an elite age group athlete my running is my strongest event & it seems that I have lost that edge. For all of these reasons I sought out Dr. Romanov. Keep in mind I am only attempting this for 1 week but the transition from a heel striker to a BOF (ball of foot) striker will be a slow process. This is the perfect time of year to attempt a transition like this. The running style is based on controlled falling. A forward lean of 5 degrees for starters, landing right under your body mass and pulling your leg as if you are trying to kick yourself in the butt is what the technique is about. Nicholas did alot of videotaing of us. I worked with him for 2 days & now I have to try to incorporate this different style of running into my life. I anticipate that the change will be slow & take time but I believe that with patience I will be able to regain my speed, endurance and be able to run with much less or even no chance of injury. There are several POSE Instructors out there who know a good deal more than I do. It is my intention, if it turns out that this works, to become a POSE Instructor and incorporate that into my Triathlon Coaching.

catwood
12-11-2004, 06:46 AM
My xc coaches work with this method and Friel gives a brief overview and recommends in in "The Triathlete's Training Bible". I think its a good method.

I haven't had the chance to change my default form too much and I can't hold it for very long because my form is really bad(heel striker, somehow I don't even use my glutes at all and hardly my calves...). But when I hold it for a stride or two I feel smooth and fast for once(instead of bumpy and flappy and not as fast). Makes me think and hope, Boy would I love to break 20 for a 5k at the end of tri...

I haven't read the pose book(probably will sometime), but according to coach, the basic gist of it is lift your heel straight up (kind of following the line of your other leg), then lift you knee up towards your chest. And when you're putting it together with running, have a 5-10 degree forward lean --depending on speed -- and land on the ball of your foot. You can practice it one foot at a time either in place or walking with the other foot. When you're running it kind of feels like your falling and catching yourself (but your not really falling as that would be wasted vertical movement) then quickly moving your leg up and forward. I find that I keep my legs a lot more in front of me that I used to -- and that's a good thing.

We all know how reliable message boards are :-) .

Here’s a better looking one. A thread on the Runner’s World forum (found through Google) promises a fiery debate about changing one’s natural running gait. In that thread, someone mentions that a book by Gordon Pirie, Running Fast and Injury Free, is available online. This person claims that it teaches the same method as Romanov’s Pose but doesn’t have as much structure to develop the technique (drills). Here’s the link to the thread:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/...s.asp?UTN=8237

This thread, which started in February, 2003, is still going after more than 1600 messages. I haven’t read many of them, but it seems that people are reporting techniques, results, and training with the method. So anyone interested in Pose might get some useful info from it. I hope to read through many of the messages sometime soon.

OK, just read a few of them. One interesting and timely thing is that one of the original posters on the first page of the thread shows up again 2 years and 83 pages later (!) (on the last page of the thread, as of today) to report his first injury. Here’s his first post about the Pose Method (note that the date is European style, so 6 Feb. 2003):

Tom Bombadil
Posted: 06/02/03 10:06:54 AM
I changed my running style last August to the POSE style. Actually, I followed the late Gordon Pirie's advice from 'Running Fast and Injury Free' - a book that you can download from http://www.gordonpirie.com Since then I've also seen the POSEtech video and essentially its teaching you the same thing albeit it is a bit more structured because of all the drills.

You shouldn't underestimate the amount of effort (mainly concentration) required to switch over though, it's probably took me at least three months to adapt to forefoot running as a natural style i.e. not having to think about it.

The benefits, that I've noticed, are :-

1. I'm a little faster, this isn't some secret magic formula, it's simply that its easier to stay on the forefoot if you increase your cadence (stride rate) and the natural consequence of this is you go faster. This is at the cost of slightly increased effort though.

2. I've had no injuries since switching over. None at all, previously I'd never managed to run continuously for 6 months without any injuries.

3. Shoes are cheaper - you only ever run in very lightweight racing shoes as most of the common 'boots' are too inflexible and have heels that are too raised to prevent you running properly - hence the injuries (that's the theory anyway). Look in the back of RW magazine, shops are always discounting racing shoes e.g. Asic Tiger Paw so you can get them cheap.

The disadvantages are obviously the effort involved in retraining yourself and you will initially feel some slight calf pain (usually for around two weeks). This is because the calf is the main shock absorption spring and it's probably not used to performing this function currently.

If you decide to go ahead with this, my top tips for making this as easy as posssible would be :-

1. Buy some racing shoes from the outset. And make sure that they have a low heel and are very flexible. In fact the thinner the sole the better - avoid any with 'cushioning' or 'stability' features. I would recommend Asics Tiger Paw, NB RC150 (difficult to find) or NB RC240. I know you don't want to spend money if you're not convinced but you'll find it difficult in ordinary running shoes, and if you don't go ahead you can always use the racers for short races.

2. Try and increase your cadence early on. This obviously involves increased effort and so do shorter runs initially.

3. Avoid landing on your heels when going downhill. It's easy to take it easy downhills but if you do this you'll bang down on your heels with shoes with no cushioning (increasing your chance of injury). So lean forward and maintain the cadence.

Finally, if you're at all unconvinced by the theory - take off your shoes and try running barefoot. Which way do you run now ?

And here is a post of his from just over a week ago:

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=8237&URN=1&dt=4&srchdt e=0&cp=1&v=1&sp=456336636179238454432
Tom Bombadil
Posted: 22/01/05 22:13:42 PM
FIRST INJURY since converting to POSE 2 years ago ! After a particularly hard speed session last week, I've got Plantar Fasciitis. I've not run at all for 10 days and it's still painful.

The last 500 miles I've done in NB RC150's (2 pairs) which have been great apart from the above.

I reckon it's not completely true that POSE and minimal shoes are injury free although it's certainly been largely true upto now.

I'm hoping that some more supportive racers e.g. Saucony Team Taya's or NB 834 might help me.

OK, then. So I haven’t talked at all about the paper on Pose running. Here’s the link and the paper’s abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=14767250
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Feb;36(2):272-7.
Reduced eccentric loading of the knee with the pose running method.
Arendse RE, Noakes TD, Azevedo LB, Romanov N, Schwellnus MP, Fletcher G.
MRC/UCT Exercise Science and Sports Medicine Research Unit, Department of Human Biology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Cape Town, Sports Science Institute of South Africa, PO Box 115, Newlands 7725, South Africa. rarendse@sports.uct.ac.za

PURPOSE: The aim of this study was to compare the biomechanical changes during natural heel-toe running with learned midfoot and Pose running. METHODS: Twenty heel-toe runners were instructed in midfoot running and a novel running style in which the acromium, greater trochanter, and lateral malleolus are aligned in stance (Pose running). Clinical gait analysis was performed for each running style and the biomechanical variables compared. RESULTS: In comparison with midfoot and heel-toe running Pose running was characterized by shorter stride lengths and smaller vertical oscillations of the sacrum and left heel marker. Compared with midfoot and Pose running heel-toe running was characterized by greater magnitudes and loading rates of the vertical impact force. In preparation for initial contact, the knee flexed more in Pose than in heel-toe and midfoot running. The ankle at initial contact was neutral in Pose compared with a dorsiflexed and plantarflexed position in heel-toe and midfoot running, respectively. The knee power absorption and eccentric work were significant lower (P less than 0.05) in Pose than in either heel-toe or midfoot running. In contrast, there was a higher power absorption and eccentric work at the ankle in Pose compared with heel-toe and midfoot running. CONCLUSIONS: Pose running was associated with shorter stride lengths, smaller vertical oscillations of the sacrum and left heel markers, a neutral ankle joint at initial contact, and lower eccentric work and power absorption at the knee than occurred in either midfoot or heel-toe running. The possibility that such gait differences could be associated with different types and frequencies of running injuries should be evaluated in controlled clinical trails.

It does seem that Pose running requires some dedicated training. Just sort of “doing it on your own” without the books or anything other than reading about it on the web seems to lead to simply midfoot striking instead of heel-to-toe running. In the paper, they discuss how teaching their runners to midfoot strike only took about 15 minutes while teaching them Pose took at least a an hour a day for a week (may have been an hour and a half; I don’t have it in front of me right now). Anyway, for me this was an intriguing Google journey! It seems like I’ll have to invest in the book or DVD sometime if I want to give this method an honest try.

If anyone cares to post good or bad experiences with the Pose method as they learn and use it, that would be great.

Best,
Rene’

[Michael Pearce]

Great post as usual Rene.Now I really want to get the DVD and book just so I know what the heck I am doing.

[Christian Lemburg]

Just to report my experience:

Over two years (or about 6000 km) ago, I switched to something that I think is similar to POSE, starting from Gordon Pirie's book, and incorporating the POSE stuff from the drills video. I did not visit a POSE clinic, however.

I can report good results, no injuries since then (apart from some sprained ankles during trail/orienteering runs with collateral peroneus problems). I have also improved my speed (probably due to consistent training without injuries). For me, it works quite well.

It does take significant time to learn - anything from 3 months to about a year until you feel completely natural again.

I think that what you learn by using the POSE method is nothing new, but just efficient running - what *is* new is that the POSE method uses drills and cues much better than traditional running training (in that sense, it is similar to Total Immersion for swimming).

Just my 2 cent,

Christian

I wonder if the learning curve depends on how long you've been running on the heels? I'm hoping that since I'm pretty young the transition will be pretty quick.

[Kevin Anderson]

Last year I switched to running only in Nike Waffles Racers which have pretty much no heel at all. My calves hurt terribly for about two weeks and then it was over and I haven't had any issues. I haven't read all the articles and don't really even know what the Pose method is but I have been looking around for some shoes that have a little more cushioning in the forefoot and they are hard as hell to find with a minimal heel. I don't think I need the support or stability but would just like a little more space between my feet and the ground during the cold months. Even on the internet it is difficult to find a racing flat in the popular sizes. I don't know if it is a seasonal item or what but they are all out of stock. The following link has a good comparison chart of racing flats and I like that it shows the heel to toe drop. http://www.runningtimes.com/shoes/04...hartracing.htm
Waffles are like running in aqua socks, there are also the Asics Outback XCS which has a little more padding in the forefoot.
I like running in minimal shoes because it makes you run faster and seems to be easier on my knees and especially shins and ankles. Why don't the shoe manufacturers make a shoe for people that are into this sort of thing? I looked at the Nike Free 5.0 but my size wasn't available. They market the shoe as just for training and not everyday running, probably so you will buy more shoes.

In my opinion, the body is quite simply not designed to perform explosively, jump, sprint or run in a heel toe manner. When landing on the heels, the ankles and calves are unable to absorb or rebound from the landing. The stress of landing/rebounding the stride is then transferred directly to the knees, hips and lower back rather than first being softened by the ankles and calves. Heel toe is appropriate when walking. Perhaps I am more aware of this than most as gymnastics training is done with bare feet. During our practices, those new athletes who insist on trying to run, sprint or tumble on their heels all fail by quite a large margin when compared to their team mates who are forefoot strikers.

In fact I have observed that it is only within an artificially protected environment (padded vault runway, wearing running shoes with heavily padded heels etc.) that most athletes even attempt to run or sprint on their heels. Once the protection (padding is removed) the athletes quickly shifts to striking with the forefoot to soften the discomfort of landing on the heels. A simple test will confirm this for yourself; run barefooted down the street first with a heel strike and next striking with the forefoot.

Also Dr. Rumanov's contention that the calf is developed through rebounding movements is something that I have also seen substantiated in my own and my athletes' gymnastics training.


Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

[Ben Kaminski]

Just wanted to say this is a great subject and I am learning a great deal about efficient running form. I tried striking with the mid-foot/ball last night and it felt a great deal "smoother." I'm going to keep exploring this as it is definitely more biomechanically sound.

[Ron Nelson]

Eugene must be busy, so I'll weigh in only saying that I've ordered the POSE DVD and will be using it to "retrain" jr. high runners. Hopefully, their age will help them take to the methods sooner than adults. We will have a very steep learning curve as our first meet is in less than a month. I don't expect miracles, but if a couple of kids take to it and show results, I'm sure the others will follow.

[Eugene R. Allen]

Ron was right, I was busy...making arrangements to come down to CFHQ for the certification seminar next week. I'm guessing I can be forgiven for my priority selection.

Rene - your post is amazing. You very adroitly composed your work so that you made your point, supported it with documentation and example and even gave us links to study up ourselves. Well done. Were I not already familiar with the POSE method, I certainly would have been after reading your post.

I am very technique driven. I have been a martial artist for over 30 years and I teach for the sheriff's department where I work. Correct application of whatever I do has always been more important to me than how fast, how far or many times I could do a given thing. So a "correct" way to run comes along and I went after that with gusto. I race in triathlons and anything that can help me run better which will certainly make me run faster is very welcome.

POSE running makes sense. As someone else has already said it is the Total Immersion (swimming) program for running. The concepts of minimizing ground contact time, taking advantage of muscle elasticity, absorbing the forces of gravity into the ball of your foot, staying off your heels so you don't retard forward motion, keeping your hips on a level plane with your forward motion and so on were somewhat self evident to me...but not until after I heard them. This kind of a priori information is very exciting to me...wish I thought of it first.

I am slowly but surely able to hold on to the POSE method for more than just fleeting moments now, but I still have to think about it. I don't listen to music when I run, I run very mindfully in the same way that I swim. I pay very close attention to the various components of my stride and focus on different things at various parts of the run. On uphills I focus on keeping my hips forward, keeping my head and eyes up (you are weaker when you look down) driving with my arms and increasing my leg turnover. I always press over the top of the hill and take advantage of the free speed downhills provide. I make sure I keep an even faster tempo on the downhill so that I can paw at the ground rather than slapping the ground with a heel toe brake job. On the flats I alternate my mindfulness between upper body matters and lower body matters. During my upper body focus I ensure that my head and eyes are up, my shoulders square, chest up and shoulders slightly back, arms bent at 90 degrees plus, fingers cupped with fingernails scraping my hips to keep from rotating my upper body and relaxed hands, shoulders and face. I try not to make faces when I run and make it look like I am not straining. My lower body focus is on square hips with the slightest of forward tilt, high foot recovery to minimize the contraction of my hip flexors which weaken quickly, straight alignment of my knees over my feet, relaxed legs during my forward step so my foot drops down underneath me with minimal muscular effort, enough forward lean to fall quickly forward and get the support foot off the ground as quickly as possible, mid-foot landing with the toes point straight ahead so that my calf absorbs the impact allowing my foot to rebound slightly before toe off and a flat, non-bouncing stride. Lots to think about.

Treat your running as practice. Don't just slap on ear buds with your Ipod and listen to music so you can let your mind wander. You should be very focused on what you are doing and practice proper running form.

POSE is just a way of running, a technique that incorporates biomechanically sound running principles. Others have visited this topic and have produced their own views on the topic. The POSE method uses drills and methods to teach you to run properly.

Be dilligent. It is not easy to change something so ingrained as how you run. Keep working on it. The dividends for proper running form are increased effiency and thus speed, which reduces fatigue and injury. Who doesn't want that?

[Bruce Kocher]

Thank you, everyone, for the continuing education. My early attempts at what I think is a Pose style of running have felt great. I'm 6'3" 220 and have not been able run consistently for nine years. This thread and the 'reformed heel striker' thread have helped me find a whole world of training.

I found a great source of racing shoes at my local sporting goods store. This store outfits the local schools and clubs with uniforms and equipment for almost every sport including track (a gold mine BTW). In my experience many communities have a similar store. They usually have a small ad in the yellow pages and are in an older building downtown. Anyway, I found some really ugly leftover racing flats for 29.99 USD. It's only been a couple of days but so far, so good. My baby cows are a little sore and my knees and back feel good. Adding volume very carefully.

Any reviews on the Pose DVD? Best regards. Bruce