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Old 05-26-2005, 12:37 PM   #31
Matt Gagliardi
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Oh God, water aerobics. Please don't get me started...
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Old 05-26-2005, 02:47 PM   #32
Matt Gagliardi
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Oh come on...I know some of you guys have been in the water since Tuesday. I'll probably do the no-fin version tonight or tomorrow.
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Old 05-28-2005, 07:44 AM   #33
Matt Gagliardi
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OK...part 2 of the challenge:
20 x 25y underwater, no fins
17:43.80

After a 3600y workout, wearing a drag suit. Started kinda slow on the first one, the next 9 were at :55 and the last 10 at :50. Maybe a little room to improve here, but not much. I say that only because I never really approached blackout.
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Old 05-28-2005, 08:40 AM   #34
Eric Moffit
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how much of the :55/:50 was spent swimming and how much was resting? and how does it compare to going w/ the fins? it seems that even though the fins are easier, you could push it a little harder with them and more closely approach your limits. i could be wrong, though.
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Old 05-28-2005, 09:19 AM   #35
Matt Gagliardi
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I was hitting walls at ~:30. This is much more difficult than w/fins...my time underwater was only an extra 33%, but my resting time was like 300% greater (there is some room to cut that down I think).

As far as "pushing limits"...remember that there's really an entirely different dynamic between w/fins and w/o fins. With fins is all legs...w/o fins brings upper body into play. You're not nearly as hydrodynamic w/o fins. I would say that you're pushing your limits a lot more w/o fins. Just ask yourself this...which is more difficult. OK then...that's where you're pushing your limits. Yes, you could "push you limits" either way...but where is the most room for improvement, and which method would give you the most crossover benefit?

Let's say you really tried to go fast with fins...do you think that would "transfer" to without fins? I don't. On the other hand, working the no-fin method and getting good at it, I think you'd end up smoking when you strapped on fins.

Hypoxics by their very nature are not supposed to be aerobic exercise. So speed, elevated HR, etc. are not really what you're after. What you're working on is ability to work with less O2, to stay calm and controlled, etc. I think those are better accomplished without the fins (where you're underwater longer and having to work harder).

The semi-sick thing is that my best 50 Free (short course yards) times are in the low 20s (best ever :20.1). Comparatively speaking, I'm already finished and out of the pool before finishing my first underwater.

OK E...so step up and let me see what ya got.
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Old 05-28-2005, 09:37 AM   #36
Eric Moffit
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oh man, i thought you were doing the no-fins in a streamlined kick-only version. almost forgot humans have arms, too.

you make some good points, too. obviously, you can push both pretty hard, but no-fins is more difficult and more translatable. i will 'step up' but i have to work today and my pool is closed tomorrow and monday so it wont be until tuesday that i get to 'ave a go. sub-17:43.80 will be mine...oh yes, it will be mine.
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Old 05-28-2005, 09:49 AM   #37
Matt Gagliardi
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Fair enough. I may go again by Tuesday to try and drop this time. And if I'd tried to do this kick-only minus fins, I'd probably still be in the pool ;)
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Old 05-28-2005, 07:40 PM   #38
Eric Moffit
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so youre too smart to fall for my assassination attempt...i mean, simple-minded suggestion...initiate plan B.
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Old 05-31-2005, 02:49 PM   #39
Matt Gagliardi
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Alright E...where is it? How'd you do? I want to go again, but I seem to have picked up a sinus infection. Haven't really been able to breathe since Friday night, and when I swam today even going under like 6" sucked. I'm going to have to wait for this to clear before I can really do underwaters again.
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Old 05-31-2005, 08:20 PM   #40
Eric Moffit
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sinus infections are for pussies...haha, just kidding. i know how much that sucks...the pressure at depth is just unbearable. so...my results...

well, i didnt have time to complete the whole 20 (my pool is only open an hour at night and i got there late and needed to do some other practice, blah blah blah) but i got 10x25y w/o fins in 8 minutes. i would brag that i was on pace to beat you, but i didnt do the full 20 so i wont. i did notice that i got more comfortable as i went. i dont know if thats my body adjusting or what, but it was noticeable.

also, you said you were taking ~:30 from wall to wall...i was taking ~:20...what gives?? what is your style underwater? i was basically doing an underwater pullout (as in breaststroke) followed by successive 'first stroke' breaststoke...you know...that first one you do completely underwater...and at the end of the kick i would add a bit of a dolphin kick. that put me at right around :20 per length. i guess it could be that i weigh more and carry more momentum underwater, but i just cant believe im :10 faster than you at a 25.

i think im gonna do the complete version on our next rest day, so you better watch out!! your record will be broken!!! THE FIGHT...WILL...CONTINUUUE!!!


EDIT: almost forgot...i tried one of my 10 25s as kick only...it SUCKED. needless to say, i only did one kick only. also, i was swimming at a depth of about 3ft, which, i might add, is more difficult than if id done it at 6 or more feet deep like you...touche!
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