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Old 02-28-2007, 07:41 AM   #1
Gerhard Lavin
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I was wondering if this was something people should be concerned with. There appears to be a strong link between the consumption of pickled/fermented food i.e. kim chee and an increased risk of stomach cancer. All links below are w/f safe.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/
query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 5929164&dopt=Abstract


It's also interesting that another known toxin acetaldehyde is found in high levels in fermented food. according to this link from the BED website http://www.bodyecology.com/06/11/23/...erm_health.php Candida produces lots of acetaldehyde.

Very good article in New Scinetist http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...ur-poison.html on the dangers of acetaldehyde. Does say that probiotics provide a protetic effect againts the effects of acetaldehyde.

So are the foods BED and other recommend for gut health increasing the long term risk of stomach cancer and other digestive tract ailments
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Old 02-28-2007, 07:58 AM   #2
Troy Archie
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Strange. I've heard that the Korean people have the lowest rates of stomach and bowl cancers in the world and they attribute it to all the Kim Chi they eat.

Or so I've heard...
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Old 02-28-2007, 09:36 AM   #3
Gerhard Lavin
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Koreans have the highest rates. w/f safe http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1592326 Obviously kim chee is only one factor but is is a contributing one.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:08 AM   #4
Jibreel Freeland
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Well, for one most Korean people now eat kimchi made with MSG. For two their kimchi is made mostly with inorganic cabbage. Eliminate those two factors and I would venture to bet that there would not be such a connection between kimchi consumption and stomach cancer.

I have no doubt that fermented vegetables are wonderful for health, and in my opinion superior to raw vegetables.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:31 AM   #5
Gerhard Lavin
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MSG may not be dangerous as it's often portrayed w/f safe http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=535

Plus cabbage is one of the least sprayed crops w/f safe http://www.foodnews.org/

It's the fermentation process that creates acetaldehyde. Not saying there aren't health benefits just health concerns as well.
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:15 PM   #6
Garrett Smith
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Kim chee contains:

--Tons of spicy pepper
--Typically tons of table salt
--Depending on who makes it, possibly many other questionable ingredients.
--Some kimchee isn't fermented at all anymore (see pickles and sauerkraut at your local supermarket--just vegetables, vinegar, and salt--that's not cultured!)

From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/
query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=
AbstractPlus&list_uids=12208187&query_hl=6&itool=p ubmed_docsum:

The 'hot' sensation produced by exposure to pepper is apparently due to two natural carcinogens: capsaicin in chili type peppers and safrole in black/white pepper. There are four cookeries in the United States that are noted for their high pepper content: Mexican-American, Cajun, white Creole, and black Creole. Each is largely confined to a single ethnic-cultural group which is concentrated in some counties. By use of county population and mortality data, significantly higher rates for stomach and liver cancer were found in counties inhabited by these four ethnic-cultural groups than in matched control counties. This involved both sexes. The cancer increase was dependent on the concentration of these groups in a county. These results strengthen and extend an earlier case-control study which found odds ratios above 5 for the stomach cancer association with capsaicin pepper. It is further evidence that capsaicin is a human carcinogen.

Get the Arthritis Diet book from www.NoArthritis.com to read more on the subject.

Cultured foods that don't contain nightshades would be a whole different ball of wax, IMO.

Unfermented (I'm assuming) soy paste was implicated as well. Wish they would have included fermented soy in that study. That might have shed some light on the implication of fermentation in their conclusion (as in fermented soy may have had a protective effect).

(Message edited by guerilastrength on February 28, 2007)
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:26 PM   #7
Jibreel Freeland
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I don't know, I'm still skeptical about MSG, just like any other artificial ingredient. I wonder if Japan is second to Korea? I think I read somewhere that they have a high incidence of stomach cancer there too, but they don't eat alot of kimchi, at least compared to the Koreans.

Asian food in modern times tends to be processed and packaged even to a greater extent than in the US and Britain. They put all kinds of crap in their foods. I know first hand I used to work at an Asian grocery, (my boss was Korean.) I would read the ingredient lists on the packages and trip.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:43 AM   #8
David Wallach
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Many instances of high intestinal tract cancers in asian populations is directly related to soy proteins.

Soy protein is the devil and should be stricken from your diet.
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:25 AM   #9
Gerhard Lavin
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hi David

very interesting. I'm not a huge fan of soy. Can you point me towards some more information on this. Google isn't throwing up much for me.
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