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Old 05-05-2008, 02:41 PM   #1
Nathan Holiday
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Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

I'm thoroughly objective. I've been a meat eater, and I'm currently vegan. Every ounce of my reasoning resides on health and performance. I don't care about anything else; just overall health, and supporting high/elite performance.

Those of you who have read the Protein Debate, are probably with me when I say it’s a confusing issue. Campbell and Cordain have interesting points, but I have to give it to Campbell in the end; although I would really like to give it to Cordain, because I do want to eat meat. I'm vegan because the data supports it, not because I like the way vegetables taste, or because I have a moral issue.

What I'm interested in is hearing from strict vegans or vegetarians, who didn't eat cakes and crumpets as the mainstay in their diets. People that pursued athletic endeavors, and ate fairly balanced vegan meals that were geared toward performance. Out of these individuals, the ones that switched to meat, while maintaining strict diets and high performance, and registered an OBJECTIVE and noticeable increase in performance when meat was added.

I want to meet these parameters as closely as possible. If you were a non-athlete vegetarian/vegan, whose meat eating coincided with starting Crossfit, your results aren’t useful to me.

Lets keep all non-objective debate out of this. I DON’T want opinions. Opinions don’t matter. Facts and data matters. I want to treat this as a case study. Real results, and real people. But the parameters need to be met in order for this to happen.

Thanks guys,

N
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:52 PM   #2
Ryan Green
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

Vegans don't purchase/use any animal products, including non-food items. If you're a vegan for dietary reasons, why don't you use/buy leather, as that would have no impact on health?
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:53 PM   #3
Nathan Holiday
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

Ok, to clarify, when I say vegan it means dietary. As in, no dairy, eggs etc. Obviously wearing leather won't hamper performance. Unless you're tryiing to do Fran in assless chaps.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:59 PM   #4
Ryan Green
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

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Originally Posted by Nathan Holiday View Post
Ok, to clarify, when I say vegan it means dietary. As in, no dairy, eggs etc. Obviously wearing leather won't hamper performance. Unless you're tryiing to do Fran in assless chaps.
Haha ok, good times. I was vegan for about 3 years and exercised (weightlifting/running) regularly. I now eat an omnivorous diet and do CrossFit. In my experience, the addition of meat and dairy into my diet hasn't made a huge impact on performance. I'm able to add mass much quicker when eating meat, but that's not really my goal and it's not really a performance indicator. I think ceterus paribus, a well balanced vegan diet can yield equal performance to a well balanced omnivorous diet.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:15 PM   #5
Anu Varadharajan
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

I'm vegetarian - and only organic dairy and butter (sparingly) and have been all my life. I have been doing CF for 2.5 months now. I am significantly stronger than what I was when I first started (couldn't unrack a 45# bar). For me, the big difference was the quality of the food that I ate - avoid processed stuff and eat as naturally as possible. Feel much healthier and more energetic. Started the zone last week and it's a bit restrictive, being vegetarian, but I noticed that my blood sugar was almost constant and I didn't get the sugar lows from eating rice / bread / pasta.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:32 PM   #6
Jay Cohen
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

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Originally Posted by Nathan Holiday View Post
I
Lets keep all non-objective debate out of this. I DONíT want opinions. Opinions donít matter. Facts and data matters. I want to treat this as a case study. Real results, and real people. But the parameters need to be met in order for this to happen.N
Darn, another quest for the truth, but with such tight parameters. Just the facts and from real people.

As S. Low might say.........Sigh
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:48 PM   #7
Emily Mattes
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

I was an ovo-lacto vegetarian (eggs and milk) for 11 years. Throughout this period I adhered to various levels of "healthy" vegetarian--sometimes I was a PB&J vegetarian, other times I really focused on getting in plenty of protein and vegetables (coinciding with how athletic I was during the time period). I have done swimming and triathlons while vegetarian, and when I first started lifting weights I was vegetarian. Especially when I started lifting weights, I focused on getting protein. Ate lots of eggs, cottage cheese, soy protein powder, and drank milk.

About a year into lifting (this was initially lifting on machines, I didn't know any better) I started eating fish. My strength and performance saw immediate and drastic improvement. Gains were made faster and when I was trying to lose weight it came off quicker.

I started Crossfit after that, and then this past October began eating all meats--poultry, beef, etc. Again, I saw improvement, though the gains were less drastic than when I went from vegetarian to eating fish.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:51 PM   #8
Scott Clark
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

As far as the data supporting veganism, that in itself is an opinion. Everyone who adheres to a particular diet lifestyle will have endless "facts" that support their position. Paleo, Zone, FDA, vegetarian, vegan, etc. all have scientific evidence which trumpet the benefits of the plan.

Whole foods from top quality sources gets my vote.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:55 PM   #9
Nathan Holiday
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

I'm not necessarily concerned with the data supporting anyones stance. However, I agree that whole foods from top quality sources is an excellent choice.

Scientific evidence is almost always skewed in the direction that the scientist(s)/author(s) want the evidence to go. If you've read "The China Study" you know Campbell was, himself, swayed by the evidence itself. He was guiding nothing.

This is beside the point entirely.

I'm only interested in people that have had a positive, or negative, result from switching to meat while maintaining high levels of fitness.

So far, for the most part, vegetarians and vegans are posting. Thats what I'm interested in.

And, Scott, you didn't adhere to the parameters. A vote, my friend, is an opinion.

N
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:12 PM   #10
Derek Maffett
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Re: Calling all vegans/vegetarians. Past and Present.

Nathan, I see what you're trying to do here and, though I have no current intentions of becoming a vegetarian, I'm interested in the data you're talking about as well. However, asking a question on a public forum and then telling everybody who doesn't follow your "parameters" to shut up is not going to help matters much. I know you're trying to filter out data you're not interested in, but you potentially lose valuable data you weren't expecting and not everyone who reads the thread or posts in it wants the exact same knowledge you do.
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