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Old 11-30-2015, 02:56 PM   #1
Victor J McQuaide
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Training styles

Would be looking for input on some training tools and gauges.

Waking heart rate- Does anyone use this for a judge of recovery- get a basis for what the average is. If it higher than usual maybe take a day off or do active recovery? If its low then go hard.

Working heart rates- does anyone train on percentages with Row, run, air dyne or assault bikes.. met cons or maxes. Find the max heart rate and train by the %. Many endurance athletes do this.


*** Keep in mind I am not an expert*** Don't flame me Sean..
Back to the loss of weight and getting your body to consume fat while working out and resting thru ketosis. My last sports guru had us do workouts that programed of sort to get your body to burn the fatty acids or calories for fuel. Depleting the glycogen in your system.
He called it "Turn your body into a Diesel".
No eating calories in the am. We used exercise bikes and had our heart rate monitors. Start at a pace that put you at between 120-130 beats per min. Keep at that pace. Keep in mind that the pace had to be able to be measured example 18 mph on the bike.. when your body had to work harder to maintain the speed the workout would end. A 10-15 bpm rise would trigger the end of the workout. Essentially causing a BONK status. This could take between 45 min to 90 min depending on what you ate the night prior or when you did this in the AM. You deplete the glycogen then the body is forced to grab fat at 9 calories per gram vs. 4 cal for carb/protein. For us fat sprinter types you did this getting into the season. If you had a 5 lb fat loss you did this one time per week. If you had to accomplish a 10 lb fat loss you did this 2xs per week.

PR's and seriously bad days- in my last sport when you had a significant PR you shut it down and just cooled down and the rest of the day off. If you had a time that was way under the normal time then you shut it down, cooled down and took the rest of the day off. Now crossfit has so many ways to PR and sometimes progression of the sport, getting better technique helps a PR. But somedays I have good ones and sometimes bad ones. I don't like to train the bad days. Usually means that I did not warm up enough, or tired from the day prior or just flat out need a day off. Sometimes I change the workouts or exercises to get out of having a bad day. I am not afraid to cut a workout short, or retire from the met con if its going that bad. What are you guys thoughts on this.

Would love to hear some input on these topics.


Cheers
Vic
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:51 PM   #2
Michael E Tancini
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Re: Training styles

Here is a systematic review on using HR and HR Variability to monitor an over-reaching training response. Thought it may be of interest to you.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/42/9/709.full.pdf+html ***WORK SAFE

With my training personally, I stick to the schedule my coach programs regardless of how I feel. He doesn't monitor my heart rate in any way. When he places percentages on aerobic workouts, its normally based off a certain pace. Example: 80% of your 1 mile PR...etc. My previous coach used to monitor my HR every morning, I honestly found that to be useless. As soon as my alarm would go off my HR would skyrocket and every night I was able to get my HR and o2 sat back down to the same relative number. When I do recovery aerobic pieces, I'll throw my HR monitor on just for fun. But I do not base my training off of it.

HOWEVER, if I feel completely smashed from my day and I am essentially falling asleep in between sets and the weight feels 100x heavier than normal, I normally call it a day. He's actually the one who instructed me to do this. There is no shame in throwing in the towel, as long as your being honest with yourself on why you are doing it. Are you doing it because you feel crushed, or are you doing it because you hate rowing... 2 different things. Its important to know that just because you aren't PR'ing everything that day, the weight feels heavy, you feel a little slow, or you feel a little off doesn't mean you cant get a good response from the training you completed. I honestly might feel "good" 2-3 times a month. If I trained only when I felt good, I;d probably never train. There are days where I am essentially falling asleep driving to the gym after 8-9 hours of class, and end up having a great day. There are days where I feel a little bit more energized and get my energy zapped as soon as I start moving weight.

Are there ways you can monitor your CNS and Autonomic nervous system, Yes. Are there people who try to make correlation of those values to if your over-trained or not, absolutely. Is there research looking into the topic, I'm sure. I haven't spent too much time digging through the journals in search of it. There might not be any conclusive information out there on the topic, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to monitor your CNS with pretty simple vital signs.

I would suggest diving into the research to see whats there. The majority of replies you get here are going to be Bro-Science with support of "the guy who is really good at my gym", "The owner of my gym who has his level 1" , "the guy at my gym who's a personal trainer" , or the really great blog post they found in a google search.

Like I said, I haven't tackled the research so my reply is just an opinion only backed by personal experience. There are tons of reasons why HR may be variable and tons of reasons why your perceived effort level may be producing a higher or lower heart rate. There are many systems involved in your work capacity at a single point in time, any/many weak links in that chain could have the same physical presentation.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:37 PM   #3
Sean J Hunter
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Re: Training styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor J McQuaide View Post
*** Keep in mind I am not an expert*** Don't flame me Sean..
Victor,

In the other Forums, you made some emphatic statements that where just plain wrong, I debated your ideas professionally, never making it personal. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of ‘flaming’.

That being said, your multiple passive-aggressive comments so far, that you thinly veil as humour, are just embarrassing... you're a grown man mate...I’m going to have to assume you’re too precious too separate your ideas from your ego. So, if you are too thin skinned to handle some gentle debate, may I recommend that you don't post on public forums in the future.

So how about you put your pacifier down, and we can both continue enjoying the educated debate that goes on here? Yes?

Sean
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:22 PM   #4
Jason A Smith
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Re: Training styles

No HR monitor for me. But I train almost all the time at a percentage. Most of the time 85-90% to build aerobic power and then lately one session at 75% for building my aerobic base.

I have been thinking of getting a heart rate monitor to see where I land. As far as juggling my days it is VERY rare I deviate from what I get sent. I usually just suck it up and do the work. When my coach was asked about it he had this to say. "I don't care if you say you felt tired or sore. If you are improving week to week during each cycle that is what matters".
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:29 PM   #5
Shawn M Wilson
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Re: Training styles

My heart rate blows because I had Afib. Used to be 275-315 bpm before they burnt most of the nerves and stopped and restarted my heart 2x.

Now cardio of any sort kicks it up fast but I cap out at 185/195

So HR for me doesn't show much because of my past and the effects of the procedures.

I also stop and walk away if the day is a bad one. I've squatted 445x2 and felt amazing and been crushed by 365. I quit and just stretched and chatted on the bad day and went for more on the good days.

Lots of factors that play into it but some days it just isn't there and no point pushing it unless it has a reason to be pushed.
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Old 12-01-2015, 02:53 AM   #6
Alex Burden
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Re: Training styles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor J McQuaide View Post
Would be looking for input on some training tools and gauges.

Waking heart rate- Does anyone use this for a judge of recovery- get a basis for what the average is. If it higher than usual maybe take a day off or do active recovery? If its low then go hard.

Working heart rates- does anyone train on percentages with Row, run, air dyne or assault bikes.. met cons or maxes. Find the max heart rate and train by the %. Many endurance athletes do this.

Vic
I have used my Garmin to actually see what has heppened and when i hit my maximum HR and for how long i can hold this level but more important how quickly i can come down to a normal HR.

I have tested not going harder than 80-85% (by using the beeper when i hit the required level) and compare the same movement/WOD to see if the time is better and how my recovery was to get back down to a normal HR.

The results are very different because there is so much more to this than just your HR, if you are tired, no energy, not focused and so on.

What i did learn was to pace better... and it has paid off. I try not to hit my 100% HR max, keep it under control...

all of the rest i don't care about... now i go by feel when i work out.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:28 AM   #7
Victor J McQuaide
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Re: Training styles

Sean.. I really liked that.. was a good one. My GF says that I am the passive aggressive type also. Unfortunately we all have ego.. the death of us all. In my old sport Track racing we had the same type of discussion boards. They can be like church.. something in each message can be taken out and simply disregard the rest. Will get back on track.. that was super funny and I really enjoyed it. The sound of the baby binky hitting the high chair.

Michael will read the article later.. looks like a good one.

I think that I am going to dust off the heart rate monitor and give it a try.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:32 AM   #8
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Training styles

I use HR for two reasons:

1. keeping track of "calories burnt" so I know how much to eat, as my main goal currently is body recomp.

2. keeping an eye on my HR during WODs, if the WODs are not too much strength related, if they are no way I can keep a 90%+ rate. I like to keep my HR right around 170bpm (I am 35, so that's like 90%) and if I see its higher I take a mini break and if its lower I try to push myself. I also noticed there is no point of pushing further than that as performance starts to drop. Maybe this is due my lactic acid trashold not being high enough, or similar.

But ... I am still a newbie in terms of performance.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:10 AM   #9
Victor J McQuaide
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Re: Training styles

Dare, good stuff.. still gotta dust off my heart rate monitor. Which one do you use and why?
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:45 PM   #10
Dare Vodusek
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Re: Training styles

No idea, I got it for my birthday ages ago, a very old device and a simple one. No Bluetooth or smart phone connection, just straight on chest strap and a wrist watch.

I am very interested to see the heart rate zones people are in during WODs, so cant wait your results.
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